Ankara To Work With Assad If He Wins “Credible Elections”

Reform was offered and accepted in late 2011 then suddenly the reform offer was deemed not good enough.

Assad had a decade to offer reform before the Arab Spring came to Syria. In fact, he promised reform when he inherited his position, but he simply did not deliver. Who was going to believe Assad? According to the Guardian:

Protests erupted across Syria on Monday in response to Bashar al-Assad’s widely anticipated speech, in which he vowed not to give in to the “saboteurs” he said were wrecking the country, while offering the prospect of multi-party elections and an end to four decades of totalitarian rule.

This was entirely bullshit. Assad never had any intention to conduct elections where he might lose power. That would not have been acceptable to Hezbollah or Iran. The 2014 election was a joke.

Your lies prove nothing and get this through your head: the government has won. President Assad, the Syrian Parliament, tribal leaders all decide what happens now. Three fourths of Syria’s population live in government areas, including all the major cities and in significant majorities support the government. I doubt the government allows any vote to count that isn’t monitored by the election commission which means Syrians who fled to Western Europe and who won’t return home won’t be voting so the government probably has more and not less support than they did before, at least by percentage. Elections have consequences and so do wars. Neither you, Amnesty Int. or anyone in Geneva, Foggy Bottom or Rockefeller Center get to decide squat for Syrians who stayed home. They have a President with lawful authority, a Parliament and both Tribal oversite and Governate and Municipal councils. Those are the opinions who matter now.

No doubt that Syria has won the war, but that by no means gives even one iota of legitimacy to Assad. There will be no peace while Assad is in power. There will be no legitimate elections or a multiparty system. Those are all Assad lies (advanced by Assad apologists).

You don’t know that. Unless you mean that the U.S. is “going to create quagmires until they get what they want.” Oh, you mean that. But this has always been about that, really. This was an American project from the beginning regardless of your bullshit narrative. But government areas are rebuilding and quiet. It’s only where there are foreign fighters that large scale violence remains, like Idlib. The U.S. is applying sanctions against oil supplies to Syria, rebuilding assistance and the like but it’s not stopping anything. A sanctioned Russian ship is on it’s way to Syria tonight, having passed Isranbul last night. Rebuilding will take place and government areas are by and large pacified. A positive step.

The Guardian?.Quoting the Guardian here is a lot like whipping out a whiskey bottle at a Mother’s against drunk driving support group. Since the post 2010 culture change at the Guardian it has become a UK intelligence service propaganda mouthpiece, as recent events regarding a Julian Assange story has demonstrated. Again, Westerners have no say in how Syria is governed or in how it’s political life is structured. That is Syria’s internal affair, by treaty. Period, paragraph, end of discussion. Many if not most people in Syria did not mind the Baathist “totalitarian” rule as it beat the prospect of the Jihadi rule threatened by the chaos of Western Style democracy. I mean, let’s examine Algeria for example. Or, the conduct of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. The difference between Syria’s governance style and Algeria’s? Next to nothing. Why was Syria the target of a hybrid war regime change operation that hides behind your human rights smokescreen rhetoric? Because Syria disallowed a Qatari natural gas pipeline. Why is Algeria left alone by the West? Well, no pipeline politics in play and Algeria has the weapons and battle hardened personnel to smack down an invasion, even a hybrid war regime change one. And you are a brainwashed apologist for regime change neocolonialism. And an invasive ass.

Next to nothing. Why was Syria the target of a hybrid war regime change operation that hides behind your human rights smokescreen rhetoric?

It’s just as obvious that your anti-Americanism supercedes any human rights issues, but that aside, at one time Assad supported the jihadists. Syria was a pipeline for jihadists entering Iraq to fight the US occupation of Iraq – supported by the Assad regime. So Assad supported the jihadists before he suddenly opposed them. In affect, what goes around comes around. Assad was also a big suspect in the assassination of Rafik Hariri in 2005 – the former Lebanon Prime Minister who oppsed the Syrian occupation of Lebanon. That was hardly a way to endear himself to Sunnis.

However the main reaon the US supports regime change in Syria is because it undercuts the reach of Iran. The Syrian conflict is a regional conflict which is more about Iran than Syria. It has nothing to do with pipelines.

Thanks.

Huge difference, even if what you say is true. It is far from certain that the government in Syria had anything to do with foreign fighters moving into Iraq, although some certainly did the government in Damascus seems to neither aided or hindered such movements. But the U.S. invasion of Iraq was illegal, based on historically proven false pretenses and led to the deaths of a million Iraqis, most of them civilians. There was no sovereign Iraq during those years, just an occupied one. Resistance and aiding resistance against an illegal conquest is far different than starting an insurgency in someone else’s country. Thanks for bringing into the conversation yet another of America’s UN Charter violations though. And I’m American who is anti-American policy because it is both treaty breaking and heartless.

There is no evidence that Rafik Hariri was killed by Syrian state agents generally, or Bashar al-Assad specifically. If I had to bet, seeing the antics of his son, especially recently, I’d bet it was an internal Lebanese issue. Lebanon’s somewhat unique governing structure can lead to removals of certain disagreeable individuals from positions of power that otherwise are very hard to remove.

clearly Assad is not getting the Nobel Prize in Atrocities

You are wrong again! Despite stiff competition at times from jihadists, the Amnesty International Summary Report from 2013 indicates that after 2-1/2 years of war, Assad was responsible for the “vast” majority of the war crimes:

The internal armed conflict between government forces and the opposition, composed of the Free Syrian Army (FSA) and other armed opposition groups, was marked by gross human rights abuses, war crimes and crimes against humanity. Government forces, which were responsible for the vast majority of violations, carried out indiscriminate attacks on residential areas using aircraft, artillery shells, mortars, incendiary weapons and cluster bombs. Together with their support militias, they arrested thousands of people, including children, subjecting many to enforced disappearance. Torture and other ill-treatment of detainees were commonplace; at least 550 were reported to have died in custody, many after torture. Others were extrajudicially executed. Security forces’ snipers continued to shoot peaceful anti-government demonstrators and people attending public funerals. Health workers treating the wounded were targeted

Amnesty is a Western funded neoliberal world order defender who thinks that some people in society have the right to decide for everyone what the future holds, at the end of a gun. And if the government responds with force to restore order the state is always wrong. When you start war you get war. Communities, families, tribes have a right to expect the government to protect them from hooligans and street gang violence, politically directed or not. The government responded to restore order and met acts of violence with warfare. If I involve myself in a violent movement tomorrow to overthrow the corrupt American government I expect and accept that they are going to try and kill me and anyone conspiring with me. They will respond with extreme force, in short order. We win, or we get dead. Fast. If captured, I’d be executed for killing Police Officers and National Guardsmen. You’re not going to catch me whining about it as it would be something I understood as I made my decision.

Amnesty is a Western funded neoliberal world order defender who thinks that some people in society have the right to decide for everyone what the future holds, at the end of a gun

Amnesty doesn’t think that at all. The Assad regime was (is) a police state like the Saddam Hussein led Iraq. Amnesty believes that despite some violence directed at the Syrian state, the state has no right to massacre civilians to retain power (which is what Assad did).

Again it was war and an outside sponsored attack in violation of the UN Charter. And yes Amnesty does. I have yet to encounter an Amnesty report detailing the plight and victimization of citizens in an internal conflict who don’t support a rebellion and have had their rights suspended by armed insurgents in violation of the social contract between government and citizens. Government has a responsibility to protect citizens being preyed upon by other armed citizens and foreigners.That’s what Syria’s government did and I nor they care about your opinion of it.

First of all, this was an internal conflict where Assad used his military to quell a mostly peaceful rebellion (to protect his autocracy). Yes, this was followed by an effort from the outside as well to arm and bring in fighters. No one doubts that. However, the Assad government wasn’t protecting citizens. It was ensuring Assad remained in power at all costs. That is it. Quit pretending Assad cares about anyone but himself. That is why Hezbollah and Iran entered the war – to ensure Assad remained in power at all costs.

President Assad cares about his people which is why he fought for them. That’s honorable. He’s not an autocrat, that’s next door in the Hashemite kingdom. Of course he used his military to quell the uprising; police officers and innocent people were being killed. It’s called responsibility even if it’s hard and distasteful. It’s what a President is supposed to do when his country is invaded by foreign intelligence operatives intent on bringing out the worst and exploitable divisions of society.

Of course he used his military to quell the uprising; police officers and innocent people were being killed.

Due primarily to Assad as Amnesty International reports:

When army tanks recently rolled into the city of Dera’a in southern Syria and began shelling residential areas, the human rights crisis in the country reached a new low. More than 400 people have died across Syria since protesters calling for political reform took to the streets in mid-March. Hundreds of people have been arbitrarily arrested and detained incommunicado, placing them at serious risk of torture [or execution] and other ill-treatment. Torture of detainees has long been common and endemic in Syria…..Amnesty International has repeatedly urged the Syrian government to rein in the security forces……The Syrian authorities have failed to take these steps and intensified repression

So what. Amnesty International wasn’t responsible for protecting law abiding Syrian citizens from armed and law breaking ones. And they are not in the chain of command. As indicated before the government did what they had to in order to defend the country and restore order. Like the U.S. did 1861-1865. Or, against the bonus marcher army. Or when George Washington smashed the whiskey rebellion with armed force. You are a troll and hypocrite. It’s okay for the U.S. to be ruled by rule of law but Syria and everyone else should stand down in the face of armed chaos, even in the light of ample evidence it’s fueled and directed from outside the country.

Here’s what you and people like you refuse to get through your head: without solid internal support the government would not have survived. Alawites, more secular minded Sunnis, Druze, Christians sided with the government en masse. They still do.

No. Entirely incorrect. He had the support of Hezbollah, Iran and especially Russia. He would not have won without their help. Russia and Syria bombed the hell out of the opposition – and won. For Assad, it was always the people be damned. Assad committed war crime after war crime including targeting hospitals and field medical facilities. He used chemical weapons, barrel bombs and he attempted to starve the population. Amnesty documented tens of thousands of deaths in his detention facilities.

You can try to paint Assad as some kind of a maligned leader, but he ran a police state. The US rendered prisoners to Assad for torture. That is who Assad is.

Thanks.

He had the support of outside actors as you mention but without the support of his own people it wouldn’t have mattered. Literally the rebellion was supported generously by Gulf States, The HyperSuperpower USA, Israel, Turkey, the UK. Tens of thousands of foreign fighters flowed in including Saddam’s Officer ranks now serving ISIS after being purged in the new Iraq. There still are upwards of 65,000 foreign jihadi street gang fighters in Idlib and five thousand more in At Tanf. And tens of thousands of dead ones. If it had been a battle between the initial rebellion and the security forces this would have been over with lighter loss of life long ago but outside forces got involved, on the rebellion side first. That’s just a fact.

Answer me this. If he was such a popular leader and had the support of the people, why didn’t he hold elections between 1999 and 2011? Isn’t that how you determine the popularity of a President? A free and fair election is the ultimate test of a leader’s popularity. Assad in every respect is a fraud.

Fuck you. You are a fraud. You invade this alternative view site when there are plenty of Imperial and corporate War cheerleading sites to peddle your war pig neocolonial views on. You come here, like a Western Intelligence agent, to sow discord and drive people off the site in frustration, a place of alternative news coverage and community conversation we pay for. Your need to post comment after comment betrays you as someone who is paid to disrupt or enjoys it so much you intend to sharp elbow your way to the last word. In many ways it is a metaphor for the invasion of Syria itself; the arrogance, the taking of something that doesn’t belong to you, the lies and propaganda, the extreme pushiness and sense of entitlement. Again, Fuck you you dirty American piece of shit. Fuck off.

And get this through your thick, bloodthirsty neo con and neocolonial head: The Syrian parliament, the tribes, the government can have or not have elections as they see fit. Ir’s their country, their rules, their way. Syria does not belong to you or to the United States. That’s just as true today as it was before 2011

It’s one thing to oppose the US and Arabs supporting the war effort against Assad, it’s completely another to become an apologists for a brutal dictator. There is no defending Assad.

Thanks.

So says you. I’m just fine with defending him. He stood up for his country and people against outside invaders cloaked in a fake nativist uprising directed from outside, like from Langley and the banks of the Thames. He bravely refused to leave, said he’d share his country’s fate and offered to resign if the senior tribal council thought they could salvage the situation by retiring him. They refused to hear of it. He visited his soldiers, in his own car and saw war orphans for their eye exams. He goes with his wife to her chemotherapy and deserves better than your MSM slander and character assassination. Smack yourself upside the head, unlearn the lies and understand: it was an invasion, a regime change operation, a protest movement catalyzed into an armed insurgency buttressed by outside money, weapons and foreign fighters. That is the truth. His real crime?; winning.

You can’t understand that though, can you? You’re a part of it, surely. Langley yourself, or a soldier at the new cyber propaganda unit. No reasonable or polite person would go on to a site where people see the world from a different point of view and strong arm the conversation into what we would see as offensive territory without being paid and a new world order agent. I’m passionate about my point of view but I don’t rub it into the faces of veterans I meet or play chess with down at the VA, or go onto Trump Murica first sites to relentlessly taunt people. Bad form, or just savagely rude. Coming here, muscling your way to the center of this thread, way beyond just stating your opinion means paid agent. If I’d went to any MSM comment board, including the Guardian I’d have been censored on my first comment. But here you are, on our crowdfunded site, rudely trying to offend and take over. You should be ashamed, as you cash your check. Part of the machine, you must be so proud.

I’m not paid by anyone, but I do read and do my homework. I am used to discussing the issues – for the past decade at various sites. Alternative media sites add a considerable amount to the discussion, but that shouldn’t mean limiting discussions to people who agree with the point of view of the site. Don’t worry though. I have been banned from three alternative viewpoint sites for giving my opinion on topics – and not because I am paid by anyone to do so. Why do you post at an alternate viewpoint site if you don’t want to discuss alternate viewpoints? Don’t bother answering.

Thanks.

Baloney. What you are doing is part of an information campaign to dominate all information discussion. It’s part of an offensive to bring misery and dissension to points of view and sites outside the Imperial narrative. This story sure brought you here, hard. The idea that Turkey and others understand and are coming to live with the continuation of the Baathist governance in Syria means that you and your handlers are trying to drive the narrative back, create a new discussion paradigm, no? Yep. The panic is setting in. Especially if Turkey deals a blow to the Kurdish project, the last neocon lifeline to the Syrian operation. It’s tough days for the neocolonial Empire, what with all the resistance everywhere and the debt steamrolling toward $22 Billion. Fun Times.

And just like Syria; you don’t get to tell me how to think or what to do. President Bashar Al-Assad is a decent man, neither angel or villain, but a decent brave man who defended his country from a contrived internal rebellion, created and steered from outside and derived from utter lawlessness. American lawlessness, in it’s origin. And this thread isn’t headed into archive with your pushy sharp-elbowed mooch ass having the last word saying something different. Excuse bloodthirsty regime change operations on some Imperial groupie site, somewhere. Hurry, they’re probably discussing how glorius it was the day American ships fired on Japanese cities to open Japan up for trade. And if you hurry you might get in on overthrowing the Queen of Hawaii and stealing her country or even the occupation of Mexico City and stealing half of that country. Great stuff. Hurry on, back to Breitbart now.

I agree very much. Hard to debate enything, if there already are only one oppinion, which is allowed.

You dont know what descent are. All opposition is crushed hard since the time of Hafez, and then You think peole has a choise.

Syrians systematicly are kept stupid and are not allowed even to talk about other even very normal ones in the world.

All by tradition hate kurds. Actually they are the only ones, which by SDFs has any good change and improvement by sharing power in stead of some few Baathist being like USSR and currups as Putin and the other Oligarks.

But of course people will not vote at that. It has no change, beacuse people not even know, what it is.

Vladimir Putin is not corrupt. Actually the polar opposite. And you are a troll and a jackass who just enjoys making others here on this site miserable. That’s your goal. So, the parasites agree and join up. The reason I despise your opinion is because opinions like most of the people here share are heavily censored across the so called free world. Gour filthy and insistent habit of posting over and over challenging those views here is nothing short of harassment with the goal of making the comments section here less friendly to alternative views and forcibly invaded by MSM drivel.

You seriously just called Syrians stupid? Wow. You are rude and arrogant. Syria has existed for thousands of years before Denmark, (check Aleppo’s age, ignoramus) and will be here long after most of Denmark is under water and lost to history. If anyone bothers to remember you at all.

I agree very much. Hard to debate enything, if there already are only one oppinion, which is allowed.

I agree very much that you are a disinformation agent who hopes to distract from the crimes of the West.

Stay out of it Jens. The grownups were talking.

You are naive. Worse, you are an apologists for a murderer.

Whatever, so says you. I’m sure that Syria’s eye doctor President has never murdered a single person in his life. He probably saved a few though, during his ER residency. And I care little what you think of me. In fact, just go away. Tell your supervisor you need a break.

CNN/ Never. When I want to know the truth I go to the Duran – and Rick Sterling. As Rick Sterling said:

The following video shows the Syrian President and first lady meeting with some of the civilians and gives a sense of the joy

Yea, a real sense of joy……..

Go away. If you read the Duran you surely have learned nothing. And no one here cares. You have flagged yourself as an extreme troll who is trying to control the conversation. Like you’re paid to disrupt here.

I flubbed that comment and apologize. I meant to say that big money corporate candidates participate in large numbers, other small party candidates are restricted from debates, then on to the point about favorite candidates being tipped off to question content by corporate journalist moderators. The way I typed it the first time left it confusing and convoluted.

Actually, turnout in the next Syrian election is likely to be quite high. And I’ll let Syrians who stayed home to fight for and rebuild their country speak about the celebrations for after Presiden Assad’s victory. The opinion of a NATO loving war troll from Denmark is of no interest to me.

No, you make no sense. You’re just another Western neocon war pig. Oink oink. And it’s voting in the Western democracies which makes little sense. It’s the same favor the rich schemes that carry on despite election after election. It’s why people are so angry. See Brexit, Trump, AFD, The French protests. The Italian elections. Politicians and MSM have no solutions to offer the tens of millions of people hurting and being left behind by the neoliberal war economy. And neither do you Jens. You are just another MSM brainwashed idiot.

Perhaps there would be far fewer migrants in Denmark and in Europe overall if your governments stopped following U.S. leaders and ceased with bombing and invading other people’s countries. Less war would mean more economic activity and fewer, less desperate migrants.

We are participators of the western economies. They own us and we own them too. Very strange to not try to be familier and partly friends with them compared to You.

The main parts of USA actually are Europeans which left for good and bad reasons. 4 of my Grandfathers siblings actually emmigrated to America, because they were poor.

I am for a wall west of Istanbull only letting in food and oil to fair prices.

And Denmark has no neeed for economic activity and certainly not Yor ancient kind by low educated as we hardly were low many many years ago.

Apart from mainly muslim stupidist eating our tax we all are in jobs owing more money then ever. We also a few days ago was confirmed in AAA by IMF, which is top high rank. ……………………………..

As witten many 1000 times before, Your leavel mainly is decided by Yourself keppibg Your population stupid. They not even can read the Choran. And devellopment need structures. You deny those hard too by dividing production and governess in trust to many people – even its a must in our kind of living making a high lic´ving standard.

You even deny vomen are just as clever as men and by that can do the same jobs as men and be independent as them. The most stupid part of it is about its not safe for them being alone in the streets, at the jobs and just visiting any gender they want with no chaperone.

For whats the reason: Well, Your men fx many Syrians certainly are raised to think with their carrot much too much and even y birth told, that they are above girls and females. We hardly think like that. We are raised, so all are almost equal in almost all matters.

You start wit Islam making women into second class citicens even only arms and legs say so. They are in almost all jobs of today the same, because we use brains in stead of strong arms and legs.

You even ignore we show it every day at TV in all kinds of life. Even You like them or not Merkel, Hillary Clinton and Theresa May are top Leaders. We see the same all here as normal. Even just geting the female part out of the kitchen making children there too would raise Your primitive economic activity.

Thats denied by Your old marcho men as well and the Younger ones are mainly same thing hardly moved themselves a few millimeter. ———————————–

And You have so many things You cant talk about and only see old days jobs – not the jobs created by devellopment. You also mainly work in family busisness often being very ineffective, because You only get the best in families and sometimes not even that.

Here You even pay less for vomen doing jobs as well needed as the one men do, but they get cars and they get flowers. No wonder if many of those women dont work hard being not allowed to improve by education and hard work iand skills are not rewarded as well.

You suck and make no sense. And nearly all of what you wrote is both stupidity and vastly off topic. You come here to irritate people, throw Danish rocks at people’s opinions and spout useless gibberish and rationalize aggressive war against smaller countries. Again, fuck you and fuck off.

Yes. You troll. You do literally write thousands of troll posts here spouting the same gibberish which, when deciphered says something contrary to the alternative narrative espoused by this site, just because you can. And enjoy poking your tiny Danish dick in the air.

I knew that about Greenland and the Faores. I just wanted to see how many sentences you’d write. You blew right off the chart, you nonsensical windbag neocon war pig troll. I mean really, Jens I write long posts too but I do try to edit for duration and grammar. You know to make them salient and readable. And relevant. You should try that on some site far from here.

Blah blah blah. More nonzensy blah, Monsanto no Homs, under starry sky. Here no love for regentz. Ted Nugent, you never got to go, no. Low. UnderstNd some snow in Aleppo but not like Malmo.

STFU terror apologist…

Expaining reasons for terror make, You can reduce it. Terror often has good and bad reasons.

If you take the good reasons away, terrorist will loose support. We do it here with almost all crime and reduce it very well. Thats expensive but jail and catching the real fanatics are easier.

Some one eyed hooligan probatly not even have that in Its vocabulary being an apologist Itself.

” You must think I am a midget or dwarf too. ”

I thought it would be rude to say that Jens :)

No, you are. I’m just responding to you in awe and amazement. I have been watching as you march down the comments, now quiet and see you challenging statement after statement long after people are all gone. It’s bizzare, and coward-like. You could just comment up top and give your opinion on the story. Or join in on a fresh story and comment when others are here to defend their point of view. But that’s not how you roll, is it? Pussy.

Of course I am challenging statements here. I am telling You the many things You dont know about the rest of the world. Being a kind of neutral western I have my oppinions often being an opposition to that.

You cant even learn, that in war as well as in peace, You have to know the enemy to fight it/them being optimized Yourself.

You not even try to optimize by improving that. I also tell You how again and again, where Your possibilities are. But no way any change is not allowed and You insist.

Still, mostly nonsense. That would be believable and understood if you actually knew something most people here don’t know and if you stated such knowledge in any way that provided clarity. The net effect of your comments seem to be a general dumbing down in the average quality of the discussion. Especially when you comment long after people are gone. Little chance for dialogue but plenty of chance to shade and propagandize unmanned and undefended comments.

learning whats duable for Syria in Syria as well as could be taken and copied from others are propaganda, where You come from.

We name it as “Know how”.

I name you as a troll and full of shit.

Oh no. Rebuilding is well underway. It will be a long process with little help from the bloodthirsty creeps who started it all but slowly it will get done.

No, its not. I have seen the Assad science fiction.

None is for poor people having lost everything incl. family lives.

Start wars, lose everything. Better to avoid intelligence agents of foreign powers who are hell bent on destroying your country, inflaming your society and laughing as your blood flows in the streets.

It’s Damascus. Have some respect. Jerk.

Three fourths of the population live in government controlled areas. So, much more than territory alone. Damascus itself is mostly undamaged although some suburbs who went over to the rebellion have suffered heavy damage. But most suburbs remain intact too. You should educate yourself and learn from others, Jens. We can tutor you, just ask for the help.