Azerbaijani combat drones continue to inflict serious losses on Armenian forces in the disputed region of Nagorno-Karabakh.
On October 2, the Ministry of Defense of Azerbaijan released a number of videos showing a new wave of drone strikes on Armenian forces in different parts of Nagorno-Karabakh. The strikes hit the following targets:
- 5 gatherings of Armenian troops;
- 3 forward positions and shelters;
- 1 mortar position;
- 4 T-72s battle tanks;
- 3 MT-LB armored vehicles;
- 1 BMP-2 infantry fighting vehicle;
- 4 military trucks.
The new wave of strikes was carried out by Turkish-made Bayraktar TB2 drones, which were purchased by Azerbaijan less than four months ago.
Click to see full-size image
Armenian air-defense units are still active in Nagorno-Karabakh. However, they are yet to deal with TB2 drones. Most of the air-defense systems deployed in the region, like the 9K33 Osa, have a very limited rang. A number of these systems have been already destroyed by TB2 drones.
TB2 has got to be the most effective air combat platform on sheer kill numbers alone
its the worlds most shot down drone
And also the world’s deadliest drone by kill rate. Also the only drone to see a large-scale combat use. Turkey is a drone super-power no matter how you try to belittle their technology. These are just TB-2 drones. Turkey’s new Akinci is even more deadly, with the ability to launch Turkish-built Roketsan SOM long-range air-launched cruise missiles that can hit targets up to 150 miles away – that is some 240km away. This missile already outstrips the range of Russian 48N6E missiles which are the standard missiles used in S-300PMU launchers. With battlefield experience, Turkey can continue to improve the deadliness of its drones to a point where air-defense systems might be totally overwhelmed by drones.
Against a small military power yes. Those drones will not fly in a heavy ECM battlefield environment. Throw in a couple air dominance fighters, the drones are useless. These are for low key fights like in Syria, Libya and N-K
“These are for low key fights like in Syria” The U.S is in Syria, and therefore Russia deployed its best systems at the time and even now.
Syria was a heavy ECM battlefield environment when TB2 drones devastated its forces. Russia deployed its best tech in Syria to counter the USA. Even Sukhoi Su-57 was once deployed in Syria. Are you telling me Russia refrained from jamming Turkish drones in Syria? That’s hard to believe.
Its easy to kill with drones where there is no air-defense.
Russia deployed its best war machines and AA systems in Syria. What have you got to say about that?
you obviously don’t understand the difference between deployment and USE. Russia is not at war against turkey,americans or israel in syria ,they only fighting terrorist there.. and none of the state of the art s-400 ,s-300s ,lasers ,electronic warfare or russian airforce is used there against turkey army and their drones.. the one that is attacking erdogan drones in syria are the syrian army using their supplied pantsirs and osa defenses by the soviet union.. russia best hardware is in syria ONLY for the defense of the russian base.. and only for that.. whenver hundreds of kamikazi drones that nato provide to terrorist attack the russian base.. all at the same time.. russia had never a problem of stopping all of them.. this is a complete opposite difference to american base in iraq that could not handle just 12 ballistic missiles of iran.. while russia have to deal with hundreds of drones at the same time and never penetrated the defenses ever. still syria alone with soviet era defenses managed to shut down 98% of erdogan drones.. lol and about 80% of each israeli airforce raid in syria.. if russia was at war with turkey and used their air defenses and airforce against turkey drones and turkey airforce ,then not a single drone will enter in syria and russia will have declared a no fly zone over turkey own airspace.. using their s-400 that can reach ankara.. and turkey planes will have been shot down as soon they take off.. and erdogan drones base , destroyed by russia iskanders.. lol in armenia russia support is even worse.. is as limited as the support they give to syria.. but worse.. because in armenia is a much smaller and weaker nation.. just 3 million citizens , and a tiny territory , and russia is NOT helping with its airforce as they do in syria. to its allies to combat their enemies. so huge difference between syria and armenia.. huge one.. armenia don’t have the descent air defenses that russia deployed in syria anywhere in nagoro zone.. so basically what you see in armenia is armenia alone vs azerbaijan ,turkey and israel drones and airforce..
“while Russia have to deal with hundreds of drones at the same time” A gross exaggeration that cast doubt on much of what you said.
“this is a complete opposite difference to american base in Iraq that could not handle just 12 ballistic missiles of Iran” You said, “12 ballistic missiles of Iran”. I want you to tell me when Russia’s AA defense systems in Syria or anywhere had to deal with even ONE ballistic missile of Iran’s sophistication.
“if Russia was at war with turkey and used their air defenses and air-force against turkey drones and turkey air-force ,then not a single drone will enter in Syria and Russia will have declared a no fly zone over turkey own airspace.. using their s-400 that can reach Ankara.. and turkey planes will have been shot down as soon they take off” This is an impressive assertion. Are you saying the Syrians launched that offensive to take back Idlib without Russia’s approval? Certainly not. Then if Russia approved the assault on Idlib, they would have known that it may start a war between Syrian and Turkish forces and Russia would be ready to protect its Syrian allies even by ELECTRONIC WARFARE. The U.S has complained severally in the past that Russia is waging an EW on them in Syria. Even if Russian forces did not take kinetic action against Turkish drones, they certainly must have tried to disrupt the Turkish drone strikes by electronic means, especially when the success of these drones mean Russia might lose lucrative arms deals in the future.
“erdogan drones base , destroyed by Russia iskanders” This is the only point I agree with as it may be the only effective way to deal with sophisticated drones.
Russia, and SADF have used EW against US, Turkey, and pretender attacks. Many times, and not just against drones.
Russia more success with horse, bow and arrow.
Awesome what should I say, no one attacks Hmeimim air-base, even when HTS tries with wooden and plastic drones to penetrate Russia’s base they are instant down, so if it was full drone with signature, puff. Russia has everything to protect its base there no one attacks. What you want me to say. LOL. Russia does not employ its AA defense to protect Syria, it gave Syria many Pantsirs S-1, Syria is one of the most countries that have a lot Pantsir’s S-1’s and above that they have the S-300 from Russia, but Syria seems that don’t use them, Russia told Assad use S-300 only if enemy air-craft enters your border. And I believe that’s what they do, but the Zionists use ammunition’s outside Syria’s borders long range TV guided glide bombs, to kill some Iranians. Neither the Zionists or the Ottomans have broke Syria air-defense, yeah Ottomans were using some drones but were shot down with Pantsirs so there you go, but if incoming ballistic missiles or Jets enter rest assure that Syria will use their long range S-300 AA.
Russia hasn’t faced a sophisticated attack from rebels because the rebels use very cheap and I effective drones for their attacks. The reason both Turkey and USA will not attack Russia is just due to deterrence, not that Russian SAMs are omnipotent. I think the destruction of Russian as systems by Turkish drones is also a message to Russia that their systems aren’t beyond defeat. I noticed Russia toning down its bullish attitude towards Turkey after the February 2020 attack that killed some 2000 Syrian soldiers and destroyed tones of equipment.
:)
Russia and the west should go and fight with the Armenians as if only for the science of how to down those drone’s. It can not be that difficult a good laser, an other lighter drone could tackle it. I am sure Serbians would find so tricks, smoke, mocks,
not true .. those erdogan drones were all shot down non stop in syria.. about 80 of those drones were destroyed.. so think about that for a second.. if those drones are so deadly ,why syria reduced the territory of “Greater idlib” by 40% with russia help? those drones did not helped erdogan to earn any inch of territory in syria.. neither those drones helped erdogan to win any territory in libia and is only now they are doing major damage in armenia.. but there are major difference now in this conflict.. russia is noth helping armenia with their s-300s ,pantsirs and tors to defeat those erdogan drones.. that fall like flies in syria. i have a secret for you.. those drones are not stealthy .. they are visible by radars.. but if there are no air defenses in nagoro to counter them ,then they will fly with impunity.
“80 of those drones were destroyed”. This is a blatant lie. there have been many international reports on the outcome of Turkey’s drone wars in Syria. Non approach the number you claim – not even a fourth. And don’t tell me the international community it wholly behind Turkey to release bogus reports. If anything, many are staunchly anti-Erdogan’s Turkey. If you dispute this, show me your proof or if you got no proof, let me know if you want me to provide multiple links to resources that proof my point.
“russia have not lost a single inch of territory in syria versus erdogan backed terrorist.. but the other way.. always advancing..” It is not Turkey’s aim to take more territory from Assad’s forces. The objective is to prevent Assad’s victory in order to force him to negotiate with the opposition. And so far, it’s worked.
“neither those drones helped Erdogan to win any territory in libia” Really? Do you know where Haftars forces were before Turkey joined the fight? Haftar had Tripoli under siege! Those drones were even more successful in Libya than Syria, destroying at least 9 Pantsir AA systems.
“and neither Russia is using its airforce” Turkey too didn’t employ even a tenth of its 200+ planes and other air-force assets. Turkey has missiles that can disable Russian airbases in Syria and beyond. So it’s not particularly like Russia can do whatever it wants with Turkey.
“those drones are not stealthy .. they are visible by radars.. but if there are no air defenses in nagoro to counter them ,then they will fly with impunity.” But there were all these things you mentioned in Syria despite not being in Armenia. Unfortunately, hundreds of Syrian soldiers died by strikes from those drones. Certainly the radars of their Russian master could have seen the drones coming and warn them to early enough. The drones might be visible to radars, but that doesn’t seem to be enough to stop them.
“remember how iran destroyed the most advanced drone in american inventory.. the reaper drone.. and captured the boeing stealth drone using russian electronic warfare” A one-time isolated incident which had been planned long before execution. In a real war, you have no time to track a drone for months and figure out how to down it, which was what Iran did.
“still with all limitations armenia shot down most of them drones of erdogan” The problem is, Armenia or anyone is yet to show a video of the drone wreckage of dozens of drones as SF claims. On the other hand, Azeris provided plenty of videos that even SF was forced to accept most of their claims.
Finally, the rest of what you say is trash. Russia is a world power in terms of military. But it has severe limitations when facing a strong and determined country like Turkey.
Again, Turkey has not deployed its forces in Armenia otherwise the West would have confirmed it.
It is so effective. Azeris/Turks first take out the air defense, then artillery, then personals. Any reinforcement will be cut. Those Armenians in N-K will bled to death. They just can’t win this war.
Azeris can just get some more drones and keep doing this for a month. Then send in some infantry. I’m sure they are training those soldiers now.
What is interesting is that Armenia is fighting to keep Azeri land.
Why is that interesting?
Anything can happen with time, humans can get used to even the most horrible of situations and find a way out of it. Until now it seems that the will of armenians has not been broken, so even though they are taking a heavy pounding, the future is unpredictable. My take
All drones can be disabled with electronic warfare. They can be disabled and disarmed.
Armenia had nothing of that. Its outdated air defense is useless.
Surrender and take your men go home….
israel and muslim turks murdering christians. the world must defeat them
If muslims can have jehadis then y cant christians can hv Crusaders…Islam slowly engulfing d whole world
wws try to control them with the system of mammon
Islam is not the issue. The issue is the animosity created among the different cultures and religions across the globe. Muslims, Christians, Jews and others are perfectly capable of living side by side in peace. Every single one of them brings something good to the table.
Everything they bring is plagiarized astro worship. Sure, why not. The sun deserves praise.
If you had the decency to read a page or two, you may actually discover a lot of good things about Islam and how Muslims are supposed to relate to other cultures in peace. It is hard to know any culture if you are consumed by ignorance.
Most of the world is ignorant of abrahamic cults. Somehow, they survive, and thrive. No one needs fairy tales.
Islam is the issue here.. erdogan is doing this wars .. syria —>libia –>armenia , because he wants to restore the ottoman empire.. someone brainwashed him into thinking that is possible. with european union and russia iran and most of middle east opposing it.
Erdogan has not been brainwashed. The Americans are doing the same thing for greed. They are tearing down the world so they can plagiarize it, they are brainwashed too? Erdogan’s interests just happen to be different. Again, Islam is not the issue. You may want it to be but it’s not. If you decide to live side by side with the Muslims in peace, the world would be a beautiful place. Problem is that you try to fight the Muslims, take their lands, kill their women children, and it’s not a religion to sit back and take nonsense. Muslims have explicitly been told in their religious book to fight any aggressor and destroy them. They were also explicitly told NEVER to be the aggressors. If you see that happening, that goes against Islamic principles.
Ohhh no Islam is the fastest growing religion in world oh no…. go fuk your cow bitch, Indian fukers also love Israel and Wahhabi States….I’m sure you are one of those people who see all Muslims as the same. Which show how much of a moron and backward you are after all you are Indian.
India: Baby dies after man ‘cuts pregnant wife’s belly’
Most of time I’m in LiveLeaks I see some fuked up shit and it is always fuking Indian people.
If muslims can have jehadis then y cant christians can hv Crusaders
You fuking moron LMFAO “Crusaders” I wonder how that ended for them LMFAO.
Fastest breeding religion to be precise….wahabi cuntes r d main reason for radical islamic terrorism…
Why Indian look colour of cow turd?
“Fastest breeding religion to be precise” Indian fuking cows and killing their wifes, still India and China are the fastest growing population, why are you BS-ing? Or are you talking about Africa Muslims…they are not Wahhabi but KSA/UAE/Qatar used them in Yemen war. Iran, Syria, Iraq are not know for “fastest breeding”.
“wahabi cuntes r d main reason for radical islamic terrorism” They are and India/Israel/US/EU Love them. Sunni and Shia are against Wahhabi shithead. Don’t include all Muslims under one group.
world population 2019: 7.7 billion Christianity: 2.4 billion Islam: 1.9 billion Hinduism: 1.2 billion Christianity by far is the bestest religion and the growing rate is high. I don’t see a problem with Islam HOWEVER I have problem with some countries governments that love and protect Wahhabi shithead such as INDIA, US and Israel. Oil market is oil market doesn’t matter what Wahhabi do…no one can say anything about them just like Zion.
U forgot 700 million buddhists …hindus and buddhist fundamentals r quite similar to each other regarding 1) KARMA 2) Reincarnation 3) Cremation 4) Non-Violence 5) Kala 6) yoga and meditation We r deliberately separated despite having so much in common
I see Shia muslims as real muslims because they follow the right leaders, (Imam Ali, son-in-law of the Islamic prophet Muhammad). But when you say “Fastest breeding religion to be precise” like the fuk. In Islam there are Shia – Sunni – Wahabi and other groups….you group up all of them in one group and now you talk about how “hindus and buddhist fundamentals r quite similar to each other regarding”????? You stupid? “We r deliberately separated despite having so much in common” Shia, Sunni are opening against Wahabi and Wahhabism HELLLLOOOOO. Shia and Sunnis killing Wahabi cun7, so you are saying they (Muslims) are the same, BUT hidus and buddhist are different LMFAO. NO SHIT YOU THE ONE GROUP ALL MUSLIMS ofc I’m gonna do the same bitch. Fuk off ape.
Great Khan laugh at little Indian spice colour Yak turd.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4c83ae462dc58b2ac1c14647fd58ad3cc27065f563f1cdeb532316a94f73cfcc.jpg
As with all plagues throughout human history, humanity will defeat this plague called Islam.
Israel is backing Azerbaidjan.. so nobody cares
This says how unpopular Armenia is.
Then why some people think Iran supports Armenia? So Muslim supporting Christians?
Anything can happen.
Like Christians have a unified front. They’re too busy kissing Juden ass.
There is no Christian or Muslim world, just national ambitions and interests.
Christian lose as men become women and diddle wrong hole.
Oh man, this is just crazy. It is not the number of casualties. It is the intimidation. The bombs are falling from sky. There is nowhere to hide. Azeris have bunker busters.
Armenia should just capitulate and go back to Armenia….. Russia and France won’t stick out their necks to N-K….
What is your ethnicity?
he must be one of those Turks…touching himself as he types
He can be one of only a few ethnicities to talk the way he does. He is a shill.
Whatever you say, I do not care. I’m not offended since none of this is even close to me.
Honestly, not bashing you but the way you articulate yourself is like a little girl. Seriously, man up a bit.
Goodbye.
I’m none of the people you think. I have nothing to do with any people out there. I just do not like any occupiers….
So then you agree the citizens of Artsakh have the right to vote for independence from Azerbaijan in a referendum? Because they did that 30 years ago.
Does every tiny ethnic group have a right to vote for independence ? That is exactly what the PTB want, a world full of small, undefendable statelets. Careful what you wish for.
I know what you mean, and for that reason I support Artsakh because it is making Armenia larger, without it Armenia is lost. I would rather Armenia becomes a province of Russia than loose Artsakh.
NK is not going to help Armenia economically, strategically , or otherwise. Are there any resources there ? Arable land ? Water sources ? It wont connect Armenia to the sea either. This war is pointless.
These TB2 Drones are a nightmare despite not being the best Turkish drones
The Chinese made drones, like Wing Long II, is far more powerful and deadly. It only costs about $1-2 MM. But TB2 costs like $5MM.
So Turks makes some money supplying those drones to Azerbaijan….
But TB2 are made by Erdogan’s daughter, so more money for his family.
Maybe. Armenians probably can’t even take down those Wing Long II. They can carry such a powerful load.
Family business. And his son Bilal is trading by syrian oil. It was the same in Yeltsin’s era. His family were “successful businessmen” via his daughter. Wife of capital city mayor was the most successful business-lady. Now she’s living in London and has no such success in business. Erdogan’s relatives also have a wish to be successful. But usually it’s called as corruption.
Try them against Russia?
We already saw how Russian weaponry performs against the TB2 drones. From Syria to Libya and now Armenia, the TB2 has been an embarrassment for Russia. The S-300 was supposed to be the most advanced AA system in the world second only to S-400 or S-whatever. They were supposed to stop even the deadlier stealth fighters like F-22 raptor which can engage targets from hundreds of kilometres away. But these same systems are being killed by drones! What an embarrassment. A drone should have no chance against the world’s best AA system.
India is watching this drama with rapt attention as these TB2 drones may one day appear in Kashmir. The other operators are watching these drones massacre Russian AA systems and Russia will have a harder time making any profit from one of its proudest inventions. I wonder is the U.S is trying to destroy Russia’s arms market by having Turkey bomb Russian equipment like that.
What happened to Russia’s shooting down of swarms of drones in Syria in 2018? Drones should not survive wherever the S-300 and Pantsir are deployed. It’ll appear these AA systems have become target practice.
So it is Russia and given to someone else, its Russian descries? About what S-300 are you talking about, Russia only have S-400 in Syria in Hmeimim air base, Syria have S-300 but its up to Assad’s forces to use them.
Many turks and 99,9% of mad ukrs think that all Hmeim’s “Tors” and “Panzers” with their 10-20 km rang can shoot at any distance at Asad’s will. If syrian army didn’t intercept some aerial objects, it does mean (for turks and ukros) that russian AA units works badly. That’s how propaganda works.
That’s why Erdogan flew to Moscow and signed the deal on Putin’s terms? Aha! I got it.
Blue arrow – statue of the empress Yekaterina II, who conquered Crimea and many other lands from Osmanian empire. Marshal Suvorov won all his battles (about 60 as I remember), same as admiral Ushakov. Red arrow – clock with mini-copy of the sculpture “Crossing over Balkans” (war of 1878-88 year). Erdogan is the greatest winner, ha-ha-ha. Look at his happy face. Face of the winner! https://moment-istini.com/netcat_files/382_14623.jpg
Here is portrait of Suvorov with Erdogan in one shot. Portrait of admiral Nahimov is on the right side (a man with spyglass in his hand). https://youtu.be/J6Y8_hIEk10?t=273
Russia is losing badly, Armenia should be part of Nato
What’s the matter with some guys who think Russia has a moral responsibility to help Armenia? Russia already does that with weapons sales and probably intelligence, but sending in ground troops might lure Russia into another costly intervention like Syria.
Macron sent fighters to help Greece against Turkey, Russia is allowing Turkey to attack Armenia in its own backyard? Russia is useless my friend, lets face the reality, now I understand why these countries wanted NATO protection
inútil tu vieja
Goodbye idiot.
Exactly.
“intervention like Syria” BS hit the fan again. Intervention in Syria is what Turkey and US does. Russia was invited by legit authorities together with Iran and lebanese militia as defenders of the country against your intervention with rats and with turkish/yankish (guys from Yankeestan, you know) army later.
So that it can be wiped out even quicker. Greece is not protected by NATO membership, only the ruling elite is.
Actually its existence proves it was protected.
Or that protection and existence are not synonymes and that Greece exists because it has anyhow a capable army and capable allies, but its clearly not protected as it has to spend shit tons of money on equipment. The same with Cyprus.
Skip the LSD, its bad for you Trollstoy…
“Trollstoy”
What a brilliant description :)
?
That is so funny…
Russia are not in combat you TIT.
Every gains from the Ottoman Azerbaijanis are just by drones, I mean this drones are flying above Anti Air Systems and those systems are like blind, they don’t shot it down WTF is this. The Turks with their drones cuz they operate these drones just made massacre this Armenians and their equipment. I mean every possible kill is with fucking drones. Russia in Hmeimim base in Syria was detecting drones from HTS made from plastic and paper and small amount of aluminum, everything repelled, if Armenians have anti air weapons what are they waiting for, shot all this fucking drones. Cuz by ground Ottomans Azerbaijanis cannot do shit we saw that, they were obliterated.
TB2 is the latest UCAV against Soviet-era air defense platforms
Its only working against short range SAMs from the 80s, even than the loss ratio is about 30 drones for one SAM battery.
From early 70’s. Development – 1960-1971. “Tor” was developed in 1980’s and it’s much better.
If Turkey really wants to fight Russia in Syria, Russian airplanes would have been destroyed a long time ago. Putin knew it. So he told Turkey to back off. Or I’ll bomb your command center and kill your troops. This is why Turkey did not provide its drones to those Syrian HTS rats.
It has to be electronic warfare to kill those drones. Only US, China, Israel and maybe Russia know how to do it. This is why both Armenia and Assad are hopeless against those drones.
Just don’t believe to statements about hundreds destroyed tanks, artillery units and thousands of their personnel. Up to 20 UAVs were shot down. Overall losses looks the same, no advantage on the ground. Those abandoned villages in the south of Karabah were retaken.
at first video ,0:54 all debris pieces have same shape and size. Looks like cgi .
In FLIR camera its mostly about temperature. At the impact the debris would have more or less similar hear signature, and small debris would end up looking same
its weird af
i know right… technology
I think it’s an artifact from the image processing in FLIR
100% cartoon. You are not the first one who noticed this.
TB2 drones are useless vs air defense system like OSA SA-8 because it is an easy target…Azerbajan are only using Israeli Harpy and Harop drones beside small drones like Orbiter to guide with laser 152mm projectile!… small Harpy and Harop are dificult to intercept for OSA SA-8 system because both have stealth tech and are being using as antiradar drone which seek radar waves in order to attack SA-8 radar… beside OSA SA-8 lack of AAA artillery and only carry 4 missile….therefore Armenia have a problem and only system like BUK, SA-3/6 can destroy these drones because have a powerful adquisition radar and the missile have its own IR/Radar seeker which is activate near the target.
So you admit our drones are good for a change? :)
burn:)
I say that Harpy cost 5 million$ in 1996 and have a light warhead 23kg of explosive and not made to penetrate armour but effective to target radar!…in Syria BUK M2 was very efective vs Harpy and Harop just because the missile carry its own IR/Radar seeker beside a powerful warhead!…yesterday Armenian forces shot down 3 of them near Yerevan using Pechora 2M or BUK M2..but OSA SA-8 are useless vs them and Pantsir need a qualified crew which use well both, the radio command control to guide the missile and skilled AAA operator!
Sure, we saw how good their AD were against our airstrikes. They hit some, but most of our rockets hit their targets directly. So no, you don’t take down our drones or munitions so easily.
Because sometimes IDF needed 7 of them to attack just a warehouse… 5 were shot down and 2 hit the warehouse and was damage partially..now guess the cost of 7 Harop and the damage in the warehouse!..you must know that all sofisticate Syrian weapons are hided inside heavy Bunkers in Al Kiswah and neither drones nor cruise missile can destroy that bunkers!
We can destroy everything they have, but it never came to that point. We were close to it back in 2018 when they shot down our jet, dozens of their AD were destroyed in a day.
IAF launched 70 cruise missile and Harop in a single attack to retaliate rockets attacks and caused minimal damage ( one old radar, one warehouse, Pantsir system switch off)…now how much cost all that cruise misile?…
Doesn’t matter the cost, it’s worth it.
Azeris lost a hundred drones sofar…
Yup, it’s part of the war. But does that mean our drones are bad as he claims? depends on how you use them, works fine for us in Syria.
It depends whats more important. Cost or win. How much is a drone Azeris usibg they look medium size, I would say a million a piece? Or more. So I will be modest, $100million spent to take out 3 short range SAM batteries. Not very cost effective, those OSA batteries are dirt cheap. But…. A win is a win, if you have money to burn and want to win at all cost you can do it. WWII was basically won with this tactic. That doesnt mean drones are better, it only means they can be built faster and are more easy to use. Still I would add that this tactic may work against small countries but major and super powers with an extensive, wast and layered air defense are a totally different story.
Exactly Ranger, well put.
?
Indeed, smaller countries should buy precision arms from Turkey and Israel not from Russia which still use FAB 500 bombs.
Russia has Precision munition too, probably superior. But in the middle of the desert where there is no collateral damage why not use good ol fasion bombing…? It works and its s lot cheaper.
And that’s why there are a lot of ISIS cells in the desert.
The remnants of them…
How much does it cost to train a pilot over the course of his career ?
Depends which country. Top tier pilots around $2-3million.
Very true, and for that price you can buy several ” disposable ” drones. While at the same time, hiring teenage ” gamers” who will work ” miracles ” with them. Drones are the future.
At least against small and third world countries. Major and superpowers can easily counter them from air defense to ECM.
For now, all technology advances, There are many possible ways around that. A.I. being the most probable.
Im not impressed by A.I. pilots. They arent intuitive, cant respond to a situation they werent programmed for. If you have ever played car, flight or space sims you know what Im talking about, they are not that different. I would always bet on a pilot vs an A.I.
Translate this ti your language. There is the direct answer.
https://ria.ru/20090805/179779746.html
Strategies will change and adapt.Small A/A system will be heavily armored enclosed in external suits , dispersed, and guided by powerful radars far away via data links.Disperse launchers, with out any emission signal, and also protected by couple of feet of cement(and you can add armor as you go) effectively become invernable to any munition strikes . Any aggressor will have to resort to greater caliber missiles to to take them out. Of course that’s a problem cause they ll have to use an air force. I can see also visual recognition systems entering the battlefield. AI systems electronic eyes can recognize and guide projectiles.
But not a hundred pilots. That’s where the advantage lies.
Too much. Up to 20 losses before today. It’s not so small number as someone could think. + up to 5 An-2 equipped for unmanned flights.
5 million per one plane or for whole complex?
Per one plane
Seems too much, but I won’t argue.
Do you know how much cost a single TOW ATGM?… only the single missile 50.000$ ( 1980).
Bring in some China made Wing Long II…
“TB2 drones are useless vs air defense system like OSA SA-8 because it is an easy target.”
This is an odd assertion, Rhodium – they look pretty damn effective to me. In a black-and-white, cartoonish version of battle… yeah, an SA-8 can take down a slow-moving loitering drone without countermeasures a few thousand meters up. Technically capable. In reality, drones are the natural evolution of warfare and (with a little effort) can take out damn near any anti-aircraft system. Piece by piece with trains of inexpensive, sacrificial drones if nothing else.
Cost-wise, just about any AA system is worth the sacrifice of several drones, but this isn’t a task for simple ones. I doubt Azeris have millions to waste sending Hadrops and Harpies into SAM sites when the TB2s seem perfectly capable of getting close enough to take them out with a MAM-L or MAM-C. Exactly how they’re doing that remains to be seen, but stuff like the bizarre use of an An-2 as a drone makes me think either decoys or powerful jamming. My guesses are irrelevant because they’re taking them out anyway.
Technology has moved on, and you either have money to keep up with the latest death toys and countermeasures (and backing by various Big Thug Military®) or you do not. The Armenians have not lost the war or lost the airspace so far, but their SAMs are history. And I damn sure wouldn’t want to be crewing a D-22.
Let me say again…Armenia in NK are using SA-8 and Manpads vs small drones like Orbiter, Harpy and Harop…and that AD system are useless vs them!..SA-8 is only useful vs TB2 because that drones is in fact a slow plane with ATGM easy to detect and track by OSA system!…and I am sure that no TB2 are flying over NK because it would be destroyed by SA-8 or by Armenian air force ( SU 25/SU 30)…for other side Armenia have deployed air defense system like S-300/Pechora 2M,BUK around Yerevan and they have shot down 3 incoming Harop drones because that system are linked to powerful track and adquisition radar beside the missile have its own IR/radar seeker and more amount of explosive!..the error of Armenian military staff is 1º To underrate Azerbajan small drones 2º Not make models to deceive it like Serbia did during Kosovo war 1999 and 3º To lack of mobile AAA guide artillery!…they thought that these drones only carry 2kg-23kg is not enough to destroy tanks with reactive armour but are efective vs infantery , APC and trucks.
Yes, future warfare will consist of several different types of drones working together as is being designed now.
“TB2 drones are useless vs air defense system like OSA SA-8” Especially in mountains, though “Wasp” (“Osa”) is very old, outdated weapon and not invincible. Indeed, there are many artillery strikes shown as UAV attacks. Some “destroyed AA systems” were mock-ups.
Losing air was a big mistake. All that happened today, became so obvious on the first day when SAMs were taken out. It was the matter of time the artillery and then motorized infantry would be the next target. If there will be no diplomatic breakthrough, the result of this war is very predictable.
It is so obvious. This will be the same if China ever wants to teach India a lesson.
Air defense and control center first, through missiles or drones. Then command center, arms depots and gathering camps. Then roads and bridges. Troops and personal last.
all those things cost money , so armenia have more air defenses than even azerbaijian.. what happens here is that US is providing funding to the war ,and mass producing more drones than what armenia air defenses can handle.. also israel providing drones for free.. so is not only azerbaijan what armenia face ,but also US military satellites gps support ,funding support , and turkey support and israel support.. it is similar to what russia faced in syria ,with the major difference now ,that russia is not helping armenia to take down those drones ,because the nagorno region is seen by russia as azerbaijan territory. if there was pantsirs and tors there..in good enough numbers none of those erdogan toy drones will had a chance .. so Putin weakness is the only one to blame for this major loses of armenia , he don’t want to go to war with azerbaijan and potentially with turkey too ,and this is what is causing armenia to lose so many casualties. Putin will do everything to not fight directly those that are attacking their allies.. later is suprised nobody takes russia seriously and prefer to join nato. surpringly however the losses of azerbaijan are much more costly ,because they losing drones in the hundreds.. and tanks in the hudreds.. to armenian artillery ,which is superior.
Drones work in smaller conflicts my friend. Those things can be taken out in so many ways by more capable militaries. First of all, they wouldn’t fly without air superiority. Armenia has no air dominance fleet to match Azerbaijan
Armenia has to withdraw its troops out of N-K. Minsk group can’t save its ass.
this is the fucking perfect time for an idlib offensive …idk what the syrians are waiting for, between the sh*t show that turks started in lybia and now azerbeijan…i think openning a third front in idlib by the saa and allies would really fuck them up make a little bit of gains maybe secure the m4 and then make a ceasefire …25th divison tiger forces are in nonstop training and multiple soldiers have been graduating …it’s coming boys i’d tell the kurds to brace themselves they’re next either you bow to lord assad or you get smeshed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONI3o9Ry0AQ
Your pathetic SAA scares no one, and do’t threaten the Kurds they can teach your Syrian soldiers a good lesson.
sup iron stay safe buddy even tho we have our differences we don’t want you to get hurt honestly, you make this thread a lot of fun …if i were you i would stay away from the northern border…don’t worry about the kurds after them the golan is next
Do what you have to do cactus, we will be waiting for you ya habibi. And me? nah don’t worry I wasn’t called to duty, yet. Will I? that question depends on the IDF.
Hey, this article may be interesting for you : https://bulgarianmilitary.com/amp/2020/09/26/us-withdraws-its-nuclear-bombs-from-incirlik-us-turkish-relations-are-deteriorating/
Thanks man, looks interesting indeed.
No offense but if not for Russia and the SAA Kurds would be toast in north Syria, Turkey pounded them for weeks they were on their last leg when SAA and Russia showed up and Turkey had to stand down.
That guy hates the Kurds because they worked with the U.S, but he forgets they are very good fighters even on their own. Yes it’s true the SAA has helped them, yet he wants to punish them. Go figure.
Agreed, the Kurds like Armenians need all the friends they can get and can’t be so choosy. Look what part of the world we live. It is a shame that Isreal is on the wrong side of this. The Jewish American Council came out to make a statement against Azeri aggression. Armenians have a quarter of Jerusalem, we should have been allies, not these corrupt Islamists.
I agree Andranik, but how can Armenia help us against Iran? afterall, that is the main reason why we are there.
I know, but if Armenia wasn’t landlocked and facing blockades on 3 sides they wouldn’t have to rely on Iran so much. It is literally the only lifeline, and not much one at that. So by supporting Armenia against the Turks and Azeris, it would force them to reconcile our differences. There is also easy pressure to put on Georgians to deny alliance with Turks and Azeris. Sakashvili is Jewish. The Azeris are strong because they have Georgia to circumvent Armenia, without them they would be the ones landlocked. Then Israel would have even greater leverage over Azerbaijan. This mess has only gotten deeper by Israel supporting the wrong side. Look how Turks are claiming Jerusalem now, and buying houses there 3 times the market price. You know they are not a long term ally, but maybe this mess was created to drag them deep into the swamp to break them. Either way there are much greater forces at play.
I agree, and the Armenians here live peacefully in Jerusalem and no problems between any side. It saddens me to see our weapons being used against Armenian soldiers, I’d much rather it to be used against the IRGC but it’s all politics man. I hope you can reach an agreement and end this war, for all sides!
I know it is all politics, and I know very well. My family was one of the refugees that found shelter in Jerusalem after the Genocide. I still have family there. However, as for a political solution the chances are as slim as Israel making peace with Hezbollah. War is the only option. The Jewish lobby is strong in the west, if they were to pressure Turkey to come to terms with the Genocide the same way as the Holocaust, then there can be peace. Otherwise, this is a holy war that will continue.
Very unstable ally.
no dude.. assad don’t want to punish kurds.. they want their territory back nothing more and nothing less.. it will be similar as if texas invite mexico military to partition united states. guess what US president and american military will do ? recover their land back.. kurds are opportunistics bitches that took advantage of nato war on syria and the invasion of nato proxy fighters isis and alqaeda ,to take territory that the syrian army is forced to retreat. thats how the kurds multiplied their control of land in syria by 1500 percent thanks to western back terrorist.. but kurds never claimed that all their lands are east of euphrates.. they simply stole it ,like the thief they are.. and eventually will return to syria.. because without syria , kurds will have no chance to face turkey.
haha the kurds? you mean the same ones. that asked syria help to face turkey invasion ? lol.. if it wasn’t by syria.. help to the kurds.. erdogan will have taken all northern syria ,after youor military run away , and abandoned kurds to their luck ,as soon they listen turkey artillery shells falling on us bases perimeter.. so kurds have to be thanksful of syria and russia.. is only thanks to them ,that they still have land ,because the syrians deployed their armies to block erdogan entry in 2 zones.. so they can’t go deep inside syria without first removing the syrian army captured zones.. so is your pathetic military ,the one that needs to be careful and not threaten any major power ,because will go in the run ,as they always do ,as soon bombs falls on their positions.. US military is not trained and never will be to fight wars ,when the enemy completely dominate the airspace above them or their artillery can easily hit their positions.. US doctrine is the classical to fight at distance and only go closer when they control the airspace.
You Kurd sure can attach Turkey if you want. But Putin and Assad like to wait. They want to neutralize Kurds first. Then force Turkey to withdraw. Russia can if Putin wants.
Yes indeed, I saw they were preparing and Russians bombing. Come on Assad!
” idk what the syrians are waiting for ” For daddy Putin’s permission.
have glass of poison and shut up
Someones butt is bombing heavily.)
A big dreamer are you. We’ll see.
I agree that an offensive in Idlib should occur but I don’t support your Kurds comments
Turkey needs vital western parts, without it is imposible for them to build this drone’s. Canada, Germany and others most stop supplying Turkey and no more enable them to continue kill and kill. This is no selfdefence this is murder and It makes this suppliers to regular culprits,
I don’t think Canada and Germany think that Turkey is building weapons without intention to use them. Otherwise what’s the point of building them. If those weapons were used for aggression against another country, that might be a matter of ICC. But here so far the clashes are happening within Azerbaijani territory (as per international law), hence other countries don’t have much to object to.
Probably only US and Israel provided some technology to Turkey. Turkey has a home grown drone industry.
To late now. Turks can make all vital parts now
This whole conflict looks like TV commercial by Turkey for TB2 drones, starring Armenian soldiers and equipment.
Armenian military proved far more inept than meets the eye. They should have handed over NK back to Azerbaijan without such humiliation.
Armenia learn to ride hose and live in yurt.
Armenia more success with horse, bow and arrow than Rus weapon. More danger to soldier than enemy.
Prigozhin, founder of the Russian Wagner Group talked to a Turkish newspaper: -Karabakh is Azerbaijan’s territory -Russia has no legal grounds to conduct military activity in Karabakh https://twitter.com/m_suchkov/status/1312029409298329600 https://twitter.com/canacun/status/1312032506015875072 https://www.aydinlik.com.tr/haber/wagner-in-sahibi-olarak-gosterilen-prigojin-aydinlik-a-konustu-karabag-sorununa-mudahale-turkiye-nin-hakki-219560-1
And Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk are part of Ukraine, Russia has no legal grounds to conduct military activity there, … oh wait. What a clown if he really said that ;)
So does anyone else want to be little drone warfare now ? Drones are the future, face reality folks.
Man Armenia is taking a big pounding. Pretty remarkable that they still hold their ground
The scary part is both of these countries really don’t have much weapons (new types of weapons). For those stupid American kids that join Army….if you go against countries such as Iran, China, Russia…you good as died. US always had air supports and their enemy never had any…remember when Iran send rockets to US bases in Iraq, so many of those kids were crying like fuking bitches….some of them got PTSD from that… Iran have S-300s – China have S-400s (both countries also have other weapons to deal with jets/drone/etc). This is what happens when you don’t have air support – talking to your friends the next thing….
If yanks wants they can finish molla bastardo in 24 hours what you talking about fry potatoes ?
Wishful thinking bud, if they wanted LMFAO, they are dying for it. Sanctions are to weak a nation before attacking them, (Iraq). If they “want”, yeah like Iran-Iraq war bud? how that ended for the yanks? “finish molla bastardo in 24 hours” Stop watch movies and get your head check. Iran have S-300s and their own ADS which are S-300+. I like how you don’t think about what would follow after that…Iranian would just sit there…LMFAO Yanks got a lot of bases in ME, PMUs fuked American kids back then.
1. Not UAV strikes only, there are a lot artillery strikes with precision shells, guided by UAVs, including strikes on mock-ups of AA systems 2. Total losses are equal, 150-200 people for each side. Check at https://lostarmour.info/offtopic/caucasus – only proven losses 3. Front is stable, azerb.-turkish blitzkrieg failed.
the propaganda can’t be trusted Azeris have made nearly no territorial gains; they can photoshop u tube victories for domestic consumption…but you tube will not help them conquer territory
A story with no evidence is better , than a story with evidence that its bullshit ? currently all that can be seen from the turkish drone videos is that Turkey is really good at fooling the average moron with their nice try CGI. If you look closely you will see that all their videos are fake cgi effects with identical debris particles reproduced in basically all videos. The worst one being the absolute bullshit s300 strike which shows video from drone flying over it.hahahaha at least the Israeli’s have mastered the zoom effect to make it seem like the kamikaze drone is flying into a window of a pantsir. Turks still havent found the zoom feature yet on video editor ???
They hide in the sky and never fight on the ground.
Even their Syrian terrorists can’t break the Armenian line !!!
DEATH TO AZERBIJAN !!!