Pakistani F-16BM in flight. IMAGE: Wikipedia / Asuspine
A spokesperson for the Indian Ministry of External Affairs Raveesh Kumar came with a public comment on the recent escalation between India and Pakistan in the contested Azad Jammu and Kashmir region.
Kumar said that his country shot down a Pakistani jet and lost its own MiG-21 fighter, with the pilot missing in action.
In an “aerial engagement a Pakistan Air Force fighter aircraft was shot down by a MiG 21 Bison of the Indian Air Force” and fell on the Pakistani territory, Kumar told media.
Kumar claimed that the Pakistani military used its jets to “target military installations on the Indian side” but due to India’s “high state of readiness and alertness Pakistan’s attempts were foiled successfully.”
Earlier, Pakistan said that it had shot down 2 Indian aircraft in its own airspace and captured two pilots. So far, Islamabad had been denying losing any of its aircraft as reports suggested that a Pakistani F-16 had been downed by the Indian Air Force.
Meanwhile, an Indian military Mi-17 helicopter also crashed in the Indian-controlled part of Kashmir. It is not clear if the helicopter was downed as a part of the ongoing escalation.
Tensions between the sides have been sky-high since February 26 when Indian warplanes targeted what they described as a terrorist camp in Pakistani territory.
Furthermore, the Pakistani military said it showed “restraint” while downing two Indian aircraft. Spokesman of the Pakistani Army Major General Asif Ghafoor said his country does not desire war, but is ready to “retaliate” if India continues to violate its territory.
“We have sent a message to India that despite having the capability to engage, we have shown restraint. Our aim is to defend our motherland yet ensure no unnecessary provocation to escalate takes place,” Army Major General Ghafoor said. “If aggression is imposed upon on us we will retaliate out of self-defense. Pakistan is not pushing the environment towards war.“
I won’t believe that a F-16 was shot down until I see the wreckage. Indians are so stupid that they used mig-21s against F-16s, despite having a massive stock of SU-30s and Mig-29s.
It was a Bison model upgraded by their Zionist masters. The JF 17 whacked it. Go to Pak Defence Forum, the PAF pilots gave a detailed interview.
I understand that, but the Indians have over 200 su 30 MKI’s in it’s stock. When they need to engage enemy fighters, that’s the aircraft they should choose.
Indians are stupid and took Zionist advice about a “surgical strike” on Pakistan and ended up with utter humiliation and a literal bloody nose. Pakistan is hardly Syria which can be bombed at will. It is a nuclear armed state, armed to the teeth with a world class airforce. This is a textbook lesson on why to have a strong airforce and good training. Now India will deescalate and shut the fuck up for a long time.
Yes it was stupid to go to fight with Russian made weapons (junks). Those junks are good at only shooting down friendly aircrafts but never hit an enemy
It’s stupid to go to fight with ancient weapons when you have latest weapons.
I agree. By the way, I didn’t understand why they went for air strikes when they could have struck the targets with brahmos or kalibrs.
Brahmos and kalibers r the most wayward missiles in the world
BS
Man nothing happen as Pakistan/ India told…2 F-16 or JF 17 shot down a Mig 21 that was flying inside Paki Cachemira in Recon task beside one Heli flying over Indian part…during the last Indian airstrike vs Cachemire with Mirage 2000 and SU 30…no Pakistan fighter jet took off to intercept that Indian jets…
The Pakistani F-16’s are old early block A/B models, the Indian MiG-21’s were upgraded in the 90’s with the latest Israeli avionics, as India is quite chummy with Tel Aviv. So its not as clear cut as you make it out to be.
in the 90’s?? Then why are you not considering the avionics as old, but the F-16s. Mig-21s should be put in the museum.
War is not a video game. If a 60’s mig is all you have to oppose an enemy bombing run , then you put up your migs. In 1943, a convoy of US b17 bombers became the world’s first victim of German made air to air rockets. Hundreds of bombers were ripped from the sky, and US command quickly decided to save remaining bombers by not flying them over axis territory. Within weeks, German fighters were flying low into British airspace to strafe and destroy the remaining bombers. The next day, US bombers were ordered back into the air for strikes into German territory.
Lesson: Use it or lose it.
“If a 60’s mig is all you have to oppose an enemy bombing run , then you put up your migs.”
I agree, but it this case India had over 200 SU30s and Unknown number of mig 29s.
Old adage, never bring a knife to a gunfight is apt here. India made some real tactical blunders and paid for it.
But those might have been stationed all over India. I reckon the Indians used what they had in the area. And from what I gathered SU-30’s and Mirage 2000’s were involved in this operation as well.
As far I as I know SU30’s were stationed in the airfield, ready to fly in case support is needed (Another poor tactic I think), while the mirage 2000’s participated in the bombing.
The Pakistanis have set the benchmark pretty high now as other nations like Syria and Iran would be rethinking their passive policies regrading instant retaliation against Israeli raids. It is really a case of use it or lose it.
Have you been playing alt.WW2 history games or something? Seems like you got your history from a video game. This is wrong in so many ways it hurts my brain.
– The Germans never shot down hundreds of bombers even at their best days. The most costly raids were against the Ploiești refineries in Romania, (57 aircraft lost, and two Schweinfurt raids, 60 to 77 aircraft lost respectively). All to German AAA and fighters.
– Germany did not have a working surface to air missile in 1943. It didn’t even have them in 1945. – Even if they had, Germany would not have the amount of electronics needed to build these. – If they had working SA missiles, why were they never used again afterwards, like when the Allies bombed Germany back into the stone age and destroyed German industry! – There was no German fighter sweep offensive over the UK in 1943 for the same reason why there were no German bombing raids during the day over the UK since 1941. RAF Fighter Command was too formidable an opponent to do so. The Luftwaffe would have been shot from the skies over the UK in 1943, rather then by the USAAF over Germany in 1944. This misbegotten offensive would have given the Allies control over the skies of Western Europe a year earlier.
From the Wikipedia article on the Aug.17 1943 bombing attacks.
“The first German attacks began almost immediately and employed different tactics from the morning mission. The lead wing was attacked continuously in head-on attacks by both Messerschmitt Bf 109 and Focke-Wulf Fw 190 fighters, and although the RAF escorts claimed eight victories they were forced to return to base early in the engagement. The two groups of P-47s (88 aircraft) arrived five and eight minutes late, and despite some individual combats, they too were forced to break off virtually as soon as they arrived.[citation needed]
Inside German airspace, the Bf 109 G-6 fighters of 5 Staffel/JG 11, which had pioneered the fitment of the Werfer-Granate 21 unguided air-to-air rocket weapon system to the Luftwaffe’s single engine day fighter force the previous day, as well as the similarly armed rocket-launching twin-engined Bf 110 Zerstörer heavy fighters, including night fighters, joined the battle as more than 300 fighters from 24 bases opposed the raid. At 14:36 the force diverged from the morning’s route at Worms, Germany, alerting the German defenders that the target was Schweinfurt. Losses among the 57 B-17’s of the lead wing were so severe that many among its airmen considered the possibility that the wing might be annihilated before reaching the target. However fifteen miles from Schweinfurt the opposing fighters, after shooting down 22 bombers, disengaged and landed to refuel and re-arm in order to attack the force on its way out. Five miles from Schweinfurt German anti-aircraft guns began firing an effective flak barrage into the path of the bomber force.[16]
At 14:57 approximately 40 B-17s remained of the lead wing when it dropped its bombs on the target area containing five factories and 30,000 workers, followed over a 24-minute span by the remainder of the force. Each wing found increasingly heavy smoke from preceding bomb explosions a hindrance to accuracy. 183 bombers dropped 424.3 tons of bombs, including 125 tons of incendiary bombs.[17]
Three B-17s were shot down by flak over Schweinfurt. Fifteen minutes after leaving the target each task force circled over the town of Meiningen to reassemble its formations, then continued west toward Brussels. At approximately 15:30 German fighters renewed their attacks, concentrating now on damaged bombers. Between 16:20 and 17:00 a covering force of 93 P-47s and 95 Spitfires[note 3] arrived to provide withdrawal support, claiming 21 fighters shot down, but eight more bombers were lost before the force reached the North Sea, where three more crash-landed. The Schweinfurt force lost a total of 36 bombers.[18]”
Note you are technically correct on hundreds of bombers not being shot down in a single day. I should have said “knocked out of action.” and I see you did mention Schweinfurt. I don’t think I said anything about SAMs.
The F-16’s have late 70’s, early 80’s avionics, the upgraded MiG’s 90’s avionics, plus their airframes received an overhaul, which on paper puts them ahead of the Pakistani F-16’s, which received little support from the US, hell, Pakistan didn’t even get the full order they ordered due to them being placed under sanctions over its nuclear program. They obviously got some support since, as they got the AIM-9X sidewinders, but I doubt they received the F-16 Midlife Update program that upgraded the A/B series to late C/D block variants.
So yes, the Indian MiG-19 is an older aircraft, but it has received more upgrades so it would remain relevant for a lot longer. Otherwise I doubt that the Indians kept theirs around for so long. If anything both aircraft are currently at the end of their service lives, as the F-16A without MLU would get slaughtered in any modern war against a top tier opponent.
The Zionist scum and their fake junk came out second best. This is a great testament to Chinese and Pakistani avionics. I have just been on Chinese defense blogs and they are savoring the victory of their smaller but pugnacious Pakistani ally, which used the joint JF-17/FC1 THUNDER in combat and came out with flying colors.
Equipment is less important as to how well the guys who are using it are using it, and according to which doctrine. I suspect its less a case of Chinese gear being that much better and maybe the Pakistani military handling their gear better then the Indians did.
On paper the Indians do have more advanced aircraft. Maybe that idea has lulled them into a false sense of superiority, whereas the Pakistanis know that on paper their stuff is less good, so they know they have to step up to the plate.
As for the Chinese defense blogs, we have to keep in mind that many Chinese are ultra nationalistic, so we should take their China! Fuck Yeah! banter with the same pinch of salt as we with American blogs.
India has over $4 billion in weapons deal with Israel and that includes the 1,000 SPICE bombs sold last year that were used in the ill-fated surgical strike on Pakistani trees.
How do you know the Mig-21’s mission was to intercept an F-16? The Mig could have been sent up to intercept some other aircraft or on another type of mission only to be ambushed by the F-16’s. The mig may have been the closest airborn aircraft to a distress call and was responding. We don’t have the full story and the Pakistani’s have EW capabilities so an ambush wouldn’t be ut of the question.
In the battle-zone against a capable air force, you don’t fly a mig-21.
India’s only other relatively sophisticated aircraft are the SU-30MKI and aging Mirage 2000 and they would not have fared well against an aggressive Pakistani airforce with F-16 and JF-17. One of the downed plane appears to be a SU-30MKI.
Oh c’mon, no mki was downed. that’s just a plain lie. India has some 240 su30’s according to wiki and su30 is one of the finest jets out there. I don’t see F-16s or JF17s have any chance against that aircraft. By the way, it’s not relatively sophisticated. IT’S SOPHISTICATED.
But if their pilots handle them poorly then it doesn’t matter how sophisticated an aircraft is. Military gear is only as good as the crews that are handling it. And if the crews act like monkeys then woo to them. We only have to look at Saudi Arabia’s performance in Yemen to see that. On paper they have incredibly sophisticated modern aircraft and tanks. And yet they can’t defeat a bunch of sandal wearing Shia hillbillies.
I totally agree with this one.
Hmmmm …. it looks like some lucky indian pilot just bagged himself an F-16 with a MIG-21 so perhaps in the hands of a capable pilot you can indeed fly a mig 21 into a battle zone. https://southfront.org/india-shows-wreckage-of-us-made-air-to-air-missile-says-pakistani-warplane-fired-it-before-being-shot-down/
We need to see the wreckage of the plane to believe this version of story. So far India is just trying to save its face.
Sorry, Indians are embarrassed and telling lies. They have no proof of anything. It is a big day for JF-17 Thunder … https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5916b0ae1e1119b0332e32246466da0bd22eef37110e3852529f91f5311e4c72.jpg
You seem to love the Headchopping Pakis too much. Pakistan has been up to its eyeballs in chicanery all these years and you know it.
This is about airforce capability and not geo-politics or emotions. India on Zionist advice launched a dumb “surgical strike” against a world class airforce and got whacked, it is that simple and a lesson for everyone. Iran and Syria should take heed and invest in a modern airforce.
I am not an expert in airforces but one would have to be stupid not to see the dead hand of the zios on both sides here. Do you really think that Pakistan would shoot down the planes of India -a fellow Nuclear power- without the green light and guarantee by zio america that it would not be allowed to escalate? Of all times to try tricks the Indo-Pakistanis did it now whilst Maduro is being moved against?
It is a distraction and many geopolitical goals are being sought. Zios have won. They have caused friction again in the Subcontinent keeping its vassals at each other’s throats and thwarting China’s aims there.
Zionist scum and Americunts are like sewage they flow into any cesspool and start arming both sides. Now the Americunts want India to buy the F-16.
World class terrorists
But the wreckage was found some distance on the side of Pakistan. How can it be defense?
What wreckage? show us some videos.
Wreckage here (not that I paid much attention, I was distracted by the presenter):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1anku6oNsHQ
Pakistan has a long history of involvement with terrorists. It can’t deny responsibility for attacks originating from it’s territory. If that’s what actually happened. Which appears to be the case in this incident.
I would beg to differ. The Indians are using Zionist tactics in Kashmir like raping and blinding school kids. Even Iran and Turkey have condemned that and the hypocritical “west” has turned a blind eye. The Zionists gave India the dud bombs and advice on a “surgical strike” against a pugnacious Jihadi type state and got whacked. It is that simple and is all about airforce capability. The Indians fucked with the wrong people and got buggered in broad daylight.Pakistan has given a textbook lesson on how to use your airforce offensively and don’t back down. Like I said previously, the Indians have no choice but to deescalate and shut the fuck up. Also a lesson for Iran and Syria to invest in a good airforce and perhaps get the Pakistani JF-17 THUNDER. Incidentally, India has Russian S-400 and other junk that again proved useless as the PAF totally ruled the skies yesterday and operated all over Kashmir and Punjab with impunity. The other happy side is the Chinese who are savoring their aeronautical technology.
The evidence strongly suggests that you’re a habitual liar. The Paks have a long history of aiding and abetting terror.
Using Jihadis is part of their strategic military doctrine. US does the same in Syria and Iraq.
I didnt know Indians attacked museums as well.
Indian MiG 21 bison, due to be retired within 3 years. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e2175e8a7538d2904ea25191de4027e197aaf9d37c0a441c5a92a79998eb759d.jpg
Looks like the PAF has sent them to the graveyard a bit early. The Zionist Bison “upgrade” was a waste of money.
If there is a lesson to be drawn from this its the same as that of Argentina in the Falklands war, or Italy in WW2. If you want to look tough and improve your popular rating by using military force, you better make sure that your army can actually win the fight it is supposed to fight. And never underestimate your opponent. .
I agree 100%. It is easy to start a war but the initiator must have the capability, national will, defined realistic goals and intelligence to achieve its objectives. Just look at the impulsive, reckless and downright stupid Einsteins and geniuses at the US State Department and the Pentagon. A wise leadership would do the complete opposite of those losers. Lets see: since 2001 wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya and drone attacks in Pakistan, Somalia, Nigeria and Yemen with no end in the foreseeable future. That is a really terrible record of failure.
Hopefully, India has learnt a hard lesson and now cooler and more rational heads will prevail. Modi pulled a ill-advised election stunt that will now boomerang on him in the elections. Indians are humiliated by the world images of their downed jets and captured and dead pilots.
Pakistan is a terrorist nest..thay have many terrorist groups near Afganistan border…near Iran border and kashmir region!…
What has happened on 27Th Feb 2019 Minute by Minute details 9:52 AM – Indian Netra and Northern Air command detected ten F16 took off from 3 Airbases from Pakistan. They came in 3 groups and merged in attack formation near POK. 9:54: AM – India scrambled 2 Mig21 bisons and 4 Sukoi MKi to intercept 10 PAK F16 9.58 AM – India sounded alert to PAF fighters that, you are about to encroach Indian air space. Please evade.
9.59 AM – India sounded alert # 2 to PAF with IFAC protocols and they didn’t respond
10:00 AM – PAF violates Indian airspace. With Swarm merge attack formation (which is tactical in nature)
10:01 AM – Nine F16 forced to deviate path and within 1 KM of airspace they returned to POK side after heavy surface to air ground artillery and fight from Sukoi and Migs.
10:02 AM – One PAK F16 went deep inside Indian territory probably 3 KMs to destroy an Oil storage at an army brigade HQ 10:03 AM – One IAF Sukoi and one Mig 21 Bison Wg Cdr Abhinandan Varthaman) continued engaging the F16 in a dog fight maneuver called “Defensive split”. Mig 21 was in the front, then F16 and then a sukoi. Due to firing from sukoi, F16 flee the scene using a dog fight maneuver called “wingover”.
10:04 AM – Sukoi hovered around oil field guarding it and Mig 21 Bison (Wg Cdr Abhinandan) chased F16 out of Indian territory. While chasing he engaged F16 in a lock-in position for his onboard R-73 air to air missile to be deployed. Here you have to applaud the courage of Abhinandan. He could have returned to base. But if he returns to base then the missile lock in would have been disengaged (due to out of radar coverage) and he will not be able to shoot F16 down. So he decided to chase him down to POK and shoot him down. 10:08 AM – He engaged his R73 missile that hit the F16 and drowned him
10:08 AM – After shooting him down he performed a highly dangerous maneuver called “High-g barrel roll”. He had to do this because he had been in the vicinity of PAK surface to air artillery and SAM. While doing so he has to vertically climb at high speed and reverse its direction towards India. While doing so his old outdated Mig 21 bison’s engine thrust had a problem and he became almost non-maneuverable for few secs. And during that time either a SAM or air artillery hit his plane. So people should understand what has happened. Not upgrading or replacing the ageing jets and just upgrading radar and avionics doesn’t give you the edge. It requires a huge piloting skills, ability and courage to drown a F16 with a Mig21.