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On August 21st, Iran unveiled its first indigenous fighter jet.
The jet is called Kowsar and it was revealed during a defense show in Tehran. The aircraft conducted its first public display flight during the ceremony in the presence of Iranian President Hassan Rouhani, Defense Minister Brigadier General Amir Hatami and other senior military officials. At the ceremony, Rowhani said Iran’s defence programme is aimed at deterrence vis-à-vis the United States. “The enemy should see how expensive an invasion of Iran would be,” he said. “Why does not the US wage a military attack on us? Because of our power.”
On August 18th, Iranian Defense Minister Amir Hatami announced the unveiling ceremony of the new aircraft, noting that Iran was acting within the framework of the active deterrence strategy to “acquire whatever is necessary for defense.”
The minister also added that Tehran would also continue developing new missiles. He claimed that the the defense programme was motivated by memories of the missile attacks Iran suffered during its eight-year war with Iraq in the 1980s, and by repeated threats from Israel and the United States that “all options are on the table” in dealing with the Islamic republic.
President Rouhani also sat in the cockpit of the new fighter jet and ordered the first flight. PressTV cited Tasnim news agency which reported that the fourth-generation Iranian fighter jet is equipped with “advanced avionics and fire control systems” and can be used for short aerial support missions. It uses digital military data networks, multi-purpose digital monitors, ballistic calculation computers and smart mobile mapping systems.
The Kowsar has an advanced radar system, enabling it to detect enemy targets. It further has a head-up display or HUD, which facilitates precision targeting.
PressTV also cited Fars News Agency, which said that the fighter jet may be manufactured in both single- and double-cockpit types, allowing for advanced pilot training in addition to combat missions.
State television, cited by South China Morning Post, said that the fighter jet had already passed successful testing.
As reported by PressTV in recent years Iran has made major breakthroughs in its defense sector and has attained self-sufficiency in producing military equipment and hardware despite the sanctions and economic pressure in the country, mainly by the US.
Iran also maintains that the country’s military power is solely for defensive and deterring purposes and does not pose a threat to other nations.
South China Morning Post likens the fighter jet to the US-made F-5F Tiger, which first flew in 1974, is a variant of the 1950s-era US Northrop F-5 fighter that is a long-time mainstay of the Iranian Air Force. According to the South China Morning Post, Iran’s functional air force has been limited to a few dozen fighter jets, either Russian or old US models, including F-5, acquired before 1979.
The recent increase in Iranian military developments and movements comes as a result of the rise in tensions between Washington and Tehran. The relationship between Iran and the US has been a good one. However, after the May 8th US withdrawal from the Iran Nuclear Deal and the reimposing of sanctions on August 6th things turned for the worst.
On August 15th, Iran also revealed a new anti-ship cruise missile during a military training in the Persian Gulf. The training was organized as a show of force by Iran, which has threatened to close the Strait of Hormuz, shutting down 20% of global oil transit. This threat comes as a result of the forthcoming US sanctions, which are due to come into effect in November. They mostly target Iran’s energy and crude oil sectors.
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is this the F-5 freedom fighter ???!!!!!
or maybe Saeghe as they called it years ago..but now they callled it kowsar…. nothing to see anymore
Yes, it is the two seat version. It is Northrup-Grumman aircraft T-38 trainer (two seater), F-5 (single-seater). Super-sonic Hi-performance aircraft. It’s attributes are low maintenance, low production cost, excellent safety record. NATO uses T-38 in all countries for training. Taiwan bought a boat-load of F-5s.They were also used to train in US against F-15. They were very hard to see and gave many a lesson to F-15 pilots. Not a 4th gen, but competent aircraft. With newer systems could be very useful.
Nice producing a JET on your own in your country is big success only few countries have done this, and everyone is just buying for those countries, well the most buyed Jets are the US ones and Russian ones.
See i was right it was another F-5 refurbished or Saegheh they doing this since early 2000’s hahaha If they can make something like China JF-17 that would be a real accomplishment LOL
Exactly what I wanted to say Just clone of Northrop F-5 but…. But that might be the wrong photo because Sputnik has this one of trainer – light combat attack jet as “Kowsar fighter”.
https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201808211067353028-iran-fighter-jet/ https://cdn2.img.sputniknews.com/images/106735/30/1067353023.jpg
I’ve checked the other sources they all have Northrop F-5 clone on the photo
and i doubt they can ‘mass produce’ it into a few squadron. it will eternally became prototype with different names in the future for PR.
Depends. If they have “little help” from Russia or China I would not be surprised that they suddenly have capability to produce jets as well. See their first tank just recently produced. It looks lot like T-90. I do not believe in miracles… countries need transfer of tech to start production from zero when it comes to anything complex . They can’t just say: here we are we produce from now on ballistic missiles, tanks and jets just because we want to do it.
That or their new complex system may look similar, but may not be as good as the system its cloned of.
Of course. Many have gone down that road (of copying) at their beginnings. Japanese, Chinese and many others
They have had F5’s since the seventies, you don’t think you can improve on a product after over 4 decades of service?
Well, you can upgrade a WWII Sherman tank with modern gear. The Israelis did so and still used some in the 1973 Yom Kippur war. But if you had to bet on a matchup between an M1A2 SLEP Abrams and a souped up Sherman, my money is not going on the Sherman. Similarly, in a matchup between a souped up F-5 and an F-15 or F-22, my money will not be on the souped up F-5. Unless the opposition is being flown by Saudi pilots. Then anyone can beat them.
Your analogy is skewed, Sherman was a POS in WW2, upgrading such low quality tank is a waste of time, F5 was a capable plane for its time, the F20 variant could have given the F15 fits WVR, F5 was used as an aggressor plane for the navy…..it is small, hard to detect and quite agile. Equip it with some capable air to air missile and and improved avionics and it is a capable platform.
Looks like a Talon:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_T-38_Talon
The pictures here are not of the Kowsar, but of a refurbished F-5F. Kowsar is more like a hybrid of the F-5 and the Yak-130.
The Americans and Israelis are not going to lose a second of sleep over Iran cloning/retrofitting some old American aircraft that was made long before anyone in charge of US or Israeli foreign policy was being born.
So just as I predicted, yet another copy of old US tech. I had hoped at least it was a copy of more modern Russian tech. Hell, even a clone of the SU-24 or MiG-29 would have been better.
It takes weeks to build modern aircraft. You can’t churn them out by the thousands, WWII style. Besides, in a war with Iran, anything that gets lost by the IDF gets replaced free of charge by the US, just like in 1973, even if it means seriously depleting the US armed forces for it.
And again, nobody in the US or Israel will lose any sleep over some aircraft that’s basically pimped up 1960’s tech. Maybe if the Iranians had managed to clone their F-14’s, but their F-5’s? Not really.
The Iranians could have created 1000 Folk Wolfe 190 for cost of three dozen of these fast jets. A nearby FW 190 can see the infrared missile trail and observe the IR signature of the stealth plane for 20 miles if it is behind the stealth attacker . The hot stove pipe of stealth creates a 3 foot glowing hot spot in the rear observable for 30 miles with scanning telescope at 45,000 feet. The IR signature travels much farther in the thin low density atmosphere. If the swarm of FW 190 attack a stealth jet, the stealth fighter will lose stealth as it fires a AA missile and it only carries 6 AA missiles. The FW 190 can be mixed with active radar systems that are switched on at close range from behind the Stealthy attacker. The stealth attacker must attack the closest FW190 and those FW 190 behind it. After exhausting 6 AA missiles the stealth fighter is a sitting duck with minimal offensive capability. It was never designed for a swarm attack of greater than 1 dozen fighters. Any of the surrounding thirty FW 190 could carry a AA missile. The attacking stealth fighter has no idea which nearby fighter could carry an expensive AA missile. A single AA missile is likely worth more than whole plane. Most of the defending FW 190 are unarmed with even one AA missile but are merely decoys to draw fire and expose position of the stealth fighter . The Iranian use of high speed attack planes produced in few numbers prevented slow efficient high altitude deliver systems for AA missiles. This plane show Iran competing in race for fast fighters that it can never win and should never have attempted . A low speed propeller aircraft is useful for glide bombs and ground support . Iran should not compete in the jet fighter arena when its resources would have been better used in other endeavors. Iran does not try to have an aircraft carrier nor should it make a high speed fighter jet. Never compete in a race you can not win or play according to terms created by your enemies . Russia never adopted this strategy because it can compete at least halfway in high speed stealth game. Russia makes billions of it high speed fighter jets. Its a business for the attack jet producers. PS From the rear the hot stove exhaust of a stealth fighter can be passively seen or detected with IR and visible spectrum at 20 miles by a camera on a propeller plane at 45,000 feet. This requires scanning high magnification of visible and IR fields .At high altitudes the density and absorption of EMF spectrum are reduced. But ego and pride makes Iran want to produce a fast attack jet.
Iran should wise up They should talk with MIG corporation that looks for partner country for their MIG-35, 4++ generation jet. For the right price they could have full transfer of all tech including engines, avionics, AESA radar,sensors and start production of their own 4++ multi-role fighter jet that can carry ALL the latest Russian missiles including even some cruise missiles. They would have excellent modern, cheap , low maintenance jet fighter that can do practically everything. From air superiority fighter to ground attack.
Russian aren’t going into 4++ gen fighters technology transfer to anyone so soon. They can asks other country in Europe or China for the f16 copy. Swedish SAAB gripen is actually a good start since it’s of modular built. Having a multirole platforms domestically built and operated have already a good boost to airspace defense and its management flexibility.
“Russian aren’t going into 4++ gen fighters technology transfer to anyone so soon. ”
What the hell are you talking about?!? You definitely do not know what are you talking about. MIG is trying to sell his MIG-35 with full transfer of tech to India (as their main condition) for many years already! Read about “Mak in Idiaa It was called “Indian MRCA competition” or similar before India has closed down that offer. I don’t know if it was re-opened in the meatime In the similar way the Sukhoi did with their SU-30MKI to India. They had full transfer of tech to India so they completely licence produce SU-30MKI in India. Not sure about engines though.
“They can asks other country in Europe or China for the f16 copy”
Thank you for this !!! Now I know 100% sure that you are CLUELESS ! China never had “copy of F-16” !!
This conversation is over!
Yes they had the copy from Israel. Su 30MKI is joint production not full technology transfer. As for the MiG 35 did they have the permission to make the technology transfer ? I have no idea if it did. Only things i know they’ve rejected China bid to have Su35 technology transfer. S300 and S400 as well.
“Copy” from Israel was actually Israeli project called “LAVI” ! US has BLOCKED Isreal to make that jet so that they have monopoly in jet production so Israel have had sold it to China with blueprints and all ! You think if jet is single engine with some outside similarity that it must be pure copy of F-16?! Get life! “As for the MiG 35 did they have the permission to make the technology transfer ? ”
You don’t even bother to read ! India has made that as MAIN CONDITION for transfer of tech to win that contract that was offering buying 126 jets directly of the shelf + transfer of tech and licences in exchange for BILLIONS of $$$. Now good bye!
I find out it’s rather that the Bangladeshi that may have the technology transfer. MiG 35 bid in India is a failure.
Not interested to listen echo of corrupted Indian administration. MIG-35 is perfect value for the money. India have complained about “smoke ” from engines. But the real reason was POLITICS. Soon after that they have bought VERY EXPENSIVE French Rafale’s for 8 BILLION’s and with not true transfer of tech! India is nation with very CORRUPT elites that do not buy what is in the interest of India if they are BRIBED.
No Bangladeshi will never have MIG “technology transfer” because they do not have that kind of money or capability to build modern jets.
i have impression that you write any nonsense that cross your mind
Well yes i agree. But then it’s seems that MiG 35 still isn’t in any technology transfers yet and their new thrust vectored engine and new radars won’t be admitted to any technology transfer for awhile.
I have just told you that SU-35 engines ( with new thrust vectored engine tech) will be sold to India for their upgrade of SU-30MKI into “Super-30” And India will also buy AESA radar (probably the same MIG-35 is having) as an upgrade and some other upgrades in packege.
So that tech transfer is already on the agenda! HERE read or find other articles yourself: https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/the-sukhoi-super-30-the-outlook-indias-ultra-advanced-17535
The engine it seems. Not radar and targeting pod. That’s a good contract nonetheless.
“India has already denied Russian offer to replace the AL-31FP turbofan engines of Su-30MKI with Russian AL-41F1S (117S) turbofan engines because of performance issues. So, in the future India may replace the AL-31FP turbofan engines by indigenous 125kN Kaveri K-10 Engines.”… https://defenceupdate.in/super-sukhoi-what-happen-to-upgrade-plan-for-su-30-mki/ Wrong again genius.
That might be new development and this talk about ”125kN Kaveri K-10 Engines” is because they are actually using FRENCH know how that they present as their “new engine” India has problem to build 4th generation jet let alone to build NEW engine! They NEVER made even COPY of the engine let alone to build one alone themselves! That is total RUBBISH ! That is French engine with Indian name and all the rest is India’s propaganda “genius” ! So if they bought French tech for plenty of $$$ of course they say now that they do not want Russian!
I personally never liked India and I hope that Russia will dump those assholes completely. So that can be only good news for Russia
ALL “elites” are CORRUPTED, KILL EM ALL
China has received its first delivery of S-400’s from Russia already. Im sure they are mass producing them now. By 2030, experts are saying that China will have surpassed the U.S. militarily. Just look how many naval ships they are producing every other month or so. They are about to drop down some super – carriers soon too.
About China mass producing S-400’s is a bit… naive :) no offence intended.
“Su 30MKI is joint production not full technology transfer” Ha,ha ,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha! You are reading too much India’s propaganda! Not ”full technology transfer” because India prefers French & Israeli electronics to Russian ! What exactly is India’s creation in that production?!? What India has made in that jet?! I will tell you:
NOTHING !!!
Prove me wrong! SU-30MK was STANDARD Russian SU-30M export jet (even China or Malesia got that one) The only difference is that India wanted some things custom made for their specific requirements… So Russian’s have made those changes the way India asked them to do it ! So that’s how standard SU-30MK became SU-30MKI (I=India) Also unlike other customers India wanted French avionics and Israel radar and sensors.
India is cash strapped and pretty much a 4th world country compared to China, for instance. They try to keep up with China, but even if India were to put itself on top of a hypersonic missile, they still wouldn’t be able to catch up with mighty , up-and seriously-coming China.
India is a nation of slums and misery, that’s why it has the highest suicide rate in the world, because farmers cant feed their families.
India is a country of 1 billion seriously poor people, and a horrible infrastructure. Now go look at the mega-metropolises that China has built, also the infrastructure too.
China plans to spend 25 trillion in 10 years on the OBR Silk Roads, which have already reached Pakistan, Russia, Iran.
You would be shocked and awed at what the Chinese have developed in military hardware, but they don’t brag, or show off about it. They are a quite, determined, and very wise people.
Aircraft is not what will do Iran any good at all. In any conflict, no matter what aircraft they fly, they would be massively out numbered. Their missile defense is their lifeline. This aircraft will suit their purposes, which would likely be ground attack. If you think a MiG-35 would be cheap, you must have more money that Iran, whatever you call ‘the right price’. Russia refused to give India tech-transfer on Su-35 and was a deal breaker. I haven’t seen them give tech-trans to anyone for 4++, 5 gen aircraft, not even China. The main reason for them building this jet IS cost. Besides, it is very low maintenance and easy to build and can made now, not in the future.
With this at least no matter arms embargo it have there’s no chance color revolution can succeed.
You buddy are to reinvent PROVED military strategy that is valid from the WW2 to the present day!!! 2 words only: “AIR DOMINANCE” If you think that missiles are everything…US – NATO have them much more than Iran also… Good luck with that.
“MiG-35 would be cheap” For 1 Rafal you can 2 and half MIG-35 ! For 1 Eurofighter you can buy 3 MIG-35 and they are not better than MIG-35!! And if you would licence produce them it would be even cheaper?! How is that not cheap?! If you want even cheaper than buy new basic model MIG-29SMT without AESA radar like Egypt who bought 50 of them…
” Russia refused to give India tech-transfer on Su-35 and was a deal breaker.” No it was SU-57 not SU-35 and IDIOTS from India wanted it for FREE as condition to sign the contract for “FGFA” with Russia ! But no worries they have come back to ask Russia to talk about contract again… Only Russia can offer them 5th generation jet – nobody else would.
” I haven’t seen them give tech-trans to anyone for 4++” You haven’t because you are VERY badly informed person! Read about “Super 30″ SU-MKI project which is basically making Russian SU-35 out of SU-30MKI. Or even simpler making 4++ generation jet out of 4 th generation jet. Russia will give them engines ”117-S” from SU-35. New AESA radar and everything else they want. Because India is already considered as TESTED partner in whom they have trust.
If you think Iran could ever attain ‘air dominance’ you’re really being funny. Just because MiG35 would be cheaper than other aircraft does not mean Iran could afford them. They are building them themselves for a reason…to develop technology and production capabilities. I stand corrected on Su35 /Su57…however, the Super 30 upgrades have not happened and NO deal has as yet been made. This is due to the fact that Russia refuses super30 upgrade tech transfer and upgrades will be done by Russia, which raises the cost, hence NO agreement as yet(as of June 2018).. India only makes the basic Su30MKI. Although this program brings the Su30 up to a very advanced state, it is by no means a Su35 (completely different radars and other differences) ” You haven’t because you are VERY badly informed person!”…it seems that applies to you as well.
“it seems that applies to you as well.” Yes it does! I stand corrected as well. And it is because I do not follow that crap any longer ! They have been drugging the same problems over the years! Bickering over every dollar without finally finding solutions. And it is all the time like that with India! FGFA was the same MRCA the same they keep talking about “Make in India” over the years and keep dragging negotiations forever and finally either they cancel all or buy from West and expensive for lots of $$$$$$ !
The problem with India is that they want Russian transfer of tech and on dirty cheap and they don’t want Russia to have much dollars either way! And they want that only with Russia! But when it comes to French than it is not too much for them to pay 9 BILLION for 36 Rafale’s !!! And all that without full transfer of tech ! While when they talk to Russians they want it almost for free!
“India Signs $8.7 Billion Deal with France’s Dassault Aviation for Rafale Fighter Jets” https://www.wsj.com/articles/india-signs-8-7-billion-deal-with-frances-dassault-aviation-for-rafale-fighter-jets-1474624503
“If you think Iran could ever attain ‘air dominance’ you’re really being funny. ”
And if you think Iran could ever attain “air protection” with Bavar and other missiles only… without decent 4th generation jets than you are even funnier than me !
Yes, we all know how Syria used their Air Force to destroy incoming missiles. They only used AA missiles and EW. Where is the ‘air protection’ by aircraft you babble on about? The people running Iran’s military know better than you what is needed. You keep saying the same thing, even when proven wrong, then try to change your argument. Then you blather on about how that might be so now, because you don’t keep up, but you still know it all. NOT. I’m denying that Russia will transfer tech to India, because that is what the Russians have said and is the biggest stumbling block put up by India. Why would Russia transfer tech to India, just to see them give it to US/Israel?
not so sure..after US inspected russian made indian sub
Where did ” AIR DOMINANCE ” get Israel in 2006 against a militia, Hezbollah, who routed 75,000 IDF soldiers and two armored battalions with 4500 Hezbollah ‘ reguulars ‘ , as Hezbollah had at the time stationed its commandos and special forces north of the Litani Line.
Battles/ wars , are won on the ground. And Iran has enough manpower and along with its allies can completely saturate the entire region with fighters and troops.
Iran has a very robust ballistic missile industry / stockpile, and they are effectively immune to air attck as they are mostly stationed underground very deep.
Israel has no strategic depth to speak of. And Iran has every square meter/foot of Israel mapped out for bombardment with ballistic missiles in redundancy. If Israel or the U.S. decide to go unconventionally, then the entirety of Israel will be destroyed.
Also, Iranian missiles have a top range of 2000 km, so every oil and gas infrastructure in the entire region, and that totally includes the Gulf States, will be destroyed and the Strait of Hormuz closed down indefinitely. That would stop about 40% of the oil and gas of the worlds supply. That in itself would crash the dollar (Petro-Dollar) and cause unprecedented chaos in the West.
Iran has thousands upon thousands of said missiles, in varying forms and degrees. From ballistic missiles with 2000 km range, all the way in between, to anti-ship missiles.
Iran has been diligently preparing for war with Israel/U.S. since 1979. If Toyota can build 2-3 million cars a year, what’s to say Iran doesn’t have hundreds of thousands of missiles in their arsenal.
So why dont they do it ?
And Iran cant support troops like that in war even for daýs. So they go by Al Tanf or Suez.
Iran doesn’t “do it” because the logic is that one doesn’t do something just because one can.
Iran has supported large armies in the past during the Iran-Iraq war, later Hezbollah as well as more recently the PMU in Iraq and NDF in Syria.
Tactics change as technology does. What was the primary sea based weapon in WWI? Battleships. WWII? Aircraft carriers. Today, missiles…from ships, aircraft and land based. S-300, S-400=no air superiority.
“What was the primary sea based weapon in WWIl?”
Aircraft carriers only because they were carrying airplanes! All major Japanese and German ships were sunk thanks to AIRPLANES ! AIR-DOMINANCE was backbone of US victories since WW2 to the present day not “missiles” !
And why “Today, missiles..”?! Because Iran has them now so it must be “new tactics”? Advanced missile tech exists almost 60 years already and I never heard before about “missile tactics” If anybody was superior in the missile tech in the world it was USSR and that was long time ago. Yet USSR didn’t use “missile tactics” in Afghanistan Yet U.S. kept producing ships, aircraft carriers, airplanes and all other stuff despite all that USSR “missiles” without hesitation. All US wars of aggression over the decades were based strictly on dominant AIR POWER therefore on so many aircraft carriers. Wars in Yugoslavia and Iraq, Libya are examples. Wherever they couldn’t dominate enemy with air-power US would eventually lose the war (Vietnam, or even Afghanistan) US would attack Iran with 2000 cruise missiles at the start but after that the main weapon would be AIR POWER and bombing of everything not “missiles”! Because missiles are too EXPENSIVE to be used infinity and bombs are not! Russians have bombed shit out of the “moderate rebels” and their bombings have turned tide of the war! If anybody, any country can deny air-dominance to US from the start; they will not attack that country.
That is possible after 2020, and Russia will want or barter some oil for the MiG 35 and related technology, obviously export oriented technology.
most imporatant is ground to air missile defense system………(defense)iran is on a good way and will reveal to the public sometime oct,nov or dec. 2018 there own S-300/S-400 system named BAVAR 373.
ballistic missiles with multiple warheads(offense)..iran is extremely capable of developing those systems including missiles with multiple warheads.
these “new” jets are no match what so ever to the satanic jets of israel or nato(usa).But thats not the INTENTION of iran with these jets,…these jets will or can be used against ground targets, be it in iran,ira,syria,afghanistan….thats why they made them….
” with multiple warheads(offense)” No shit?! Warheads are used for “(offense)”?! Well that’s something new!
Give us a source for that (des) information about “ballistic missiles with multiple warheads”?! Officially Iran doesn’t have capability to build nuke “warheads” small enough to put them on missiles! Officially Iran doesn’t EVEN have any kind of nuke small or big! And if you are talking about “ballistic missiles with multiple CONVENTIONAL warheads” than that is the first one in the world and I bet everything I have that it is pure DISINFORMATION !
Your “BAVAR 373” that you compare to S-300 & S-400 is probably much closer to S-200 than to previous 2 you have mentioned
“””Your “BAVAR 373” that you compare to S-300 & S-400 is probably much closer to S-200 than to previous 2 you have mentioned”””
Where is your proof? Iran had the means to access S300 missiles from various countries, they were involved in remodernizing Syrian S200 with the Russians, and currently have S300 in their possession. You don’t think comparing the S300 and the Bavar 373 would allow them to make any needed adjustments to bring the Bavar up to par?
My “proof” is in the fact that this is FIRST Iranian AA missile system ! My “proof” is COMMON SENSE ! From historic EXPERIENCE normally 1st high tech copies are not as good as original and that is REGULAR occurrence. And that is Iranian copy of S-300 system so can’t possibly be as good as S-300! It can be close but not as good as …!
And where is you “proof”?! I know where! NOWHERE !
“comparing the S300 and the Bavar 373 would allow them to make any needed adjustments” So one just buys S-400 “compare” and make “any needed adjustments” and there you go you make S-400 in jiffy!! Fuck you stupid Russian we are Iranians who can’t make 3rd generation jet but we copy your highest tech and make it better than you! Now is that so?! I do not think it is so!
What can I answer to your idiotically simplistic “adjustments” logic?!? You think that Russians were that stupid that they didn’t know what are they doing when they were selling S-400 and SU-35 to China?! Even for such superb artists of reverse engineering as Chinese are….It is not easy at all to make copy of some high tech ! But your backward Iran is in MUCH higher level of course than stupid Chinese or Russians ! They are smart asses just like you huh?
I do not think so!
Listen mitocan, I do not want a diarrhea of your mouth speaking nonsense, I know well the Russians export technology is inferior to their domestic weapons, Iran got S300 Russian export version, and the Iranians could very well made whatever adjustments to their Bavar system using the S300 they had in their possession.
And besides, S200 relies fires a 7 ton missile with a huge warhead, how is Bavar comparable to that? As far as comparing Chinese with Iranians, Chinese copy copy very well, yet they are not very creative. I do not know how creative the Iranians are, however, this much is clear, they have developed their armaments industry during decades of sanctions.
Listen smart ass We are wasting our time till Iran publish specs of their “superb” missile! I know that US could have copied S-300 long time ago from Greece and look what CRAP the Patriot is even today? Are Chinese copies of S-300 equal to Russian S-300? NO they are NOT !
I guess I’m just wasting my time with people like you! Good bye do not bother me with your BOLLOCKS comments!
You are wasting your breath repeating your narrative, you do not even acknoelwdege what I say…..in case yo missed it, russian export weapon technology are INFERIOR to their domestic weapons.
LOL, Lockheed is going to copy S300, and give up on the junk that makes them a lot of money?
BTW, are you convinced that Khinzhal can be used against fixed ground targets?
You are retarded so I will try for the last time:
Chines copy of the EXPORT version of S-300 is not as good as that EXPORT version.
“LOL, Lockheed is going to copy S300, and give up on the junk that makes them a lot of money?” Now this is such stupid comment!?? Why wouldn’t they try to improve the performances of their system?! Of course they did try! But why didn’t they have success ? The answer is that it is NOT SO EASY TO DO IT and that was exactly my point which is to complex for you to comprehend! Nothing is simple and straight forward on such level of complexity so you can’t make simple copy! They simply don’t have clue how to obtain same result ! Example Iran doesn’t have know how to make certain alloys that resist certain high temperatures. Why do you think US imports Russian engines today genius?! BECAUSE THEY HAVE LOST KNOW HOW of certain things in production of those!!! Can they “copy them” ?!? NOT THEY CAN NOT !
“””Chines copy of the EXPORT version of S-300 is not as good as that EXPORT version.””” How do you know? Besides Chinese are not very good at quality control.
LOL, why would Lockheed copy something that is reliable and relatively meant to do the job, when they would rather over engineer weapons that are not effective and require a lot of down time and upkeep?
“””Why do you think US imports Russian engines today genius?!””” Because according to American capitalist concept outsourcing saves money, while own technological base dissipates. Americans are in a moral spiral decay that affects their mental creative abilities, subsequently they are not able to produce anything advanced; their new weapon systems are white elephants, grotesque and very expensive lacking the killer capacity.
“””Why do you think US imports Russian engines today genius?! BECAUSE THEY HAVE LOST KNOW HOW of certain things in production of those!!!”””
That is what outsourcing through globalization does, eroding technological and manufacturing base, and increasing the damming quotient.
I think he’s either troll or shill that aim to inflamed the discussion with his ad hominem attacks in every comments. Just reply and debunk as necessary not getting too much hassle to your respond quoting every sentence. Debunk and forget.
Man, he’s a lost cause. Give up trying to reason with him already…I have.
Bavar-373 is not the 1st Iranian air defense system. Iran manufactures many air defense systems (some indigenous designs) including Sayyad family, Sevvom Khordad, Tabas, Alamolhoda, Mersad, Raad, Ya Zahra, Herz-9 and Talaash.
That sounds lot?!! I guess the ranges are different – short, medium and Bavar is long range I presume I must admit I am surprised….I have never heard of that Good for Iran Can you just tell me since when they develop those systems? When was the 1st one ?
Unsure. The copies have been manufactured for decades. According to Iranian sources (from a quick search) the oldest indigenous one might be Ya Zahra which was unveiled in 1998.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Republic_of_Iran_Air_Defense_Force#Air-defence_missile_systems
The case about Bavar-373 being superior to S-300 or the opposite cannot be proven since it’s still in the testing phase. Of course your argument about “copy cannot be superior to the original” has logic in general. However please note that Bavar-373 is not exactly a copy of S-300 as the unveiled system shows.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3a2c3f37ee28e31de433785eaad5e2dd501de21d6e00dcd2e9133fb0a41be936.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2f196274381af76e588c60a55847874e5a3e28cad581fa51c2fdae26a3eb4ef5.jpg
Sorry but outside resemblance as “proof” that something is copy or not is not “proof”. Launch tubes are square and there are only 2 of them and that is still not proof that essential part which is missiles and radars are not attempted copies….
BUT to be fair, what it counts is the PERFORMANCE above all ! And if Bavar is in specs as good as S-300 PMU-2 than Iran is shoulder to shoulder with China! Which would be HUGE achievement already considering that China is industrial Super Power and high tech developed country with tens or even hundreds of thousands of engineers ! I really do hope that Iran has that quality. That is their TRUMP card against US ! Thanks for the info!
“outside resemblance as “proof” that something is copy or not is not “proof”
Again your logic is correct in general however as noted some professionals argue that there are differences that can be observed “from outside” like the launch system being hot as opposed to the cold launch system used in the S-300.
He probably means the Raining Zelzal which doesn’t seem to be ballistic:
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a715fc3344f6cc1ce9c7c400946d68e936e0b9b6a8f5276efa59c50a9887834f.jpg
There are ” multiple warheads in conventional missiles (ballistic or not cruise or not) ! NOBODY has that ! He is very ignorant guy because he claims existence of something that NOBODY is using! Multiple warheads are typically related with (Russian) ICBM – SLBM nukes. China is also starting in that direction and US as well .
Ballistic missiles can have warheads equipped with submunitions, consider the Iskander missile…..The Iskander has several conventional warhead options weighing between 480 and 700 kg, depending on type. These include a high explosives (HE) variant, sub-munition dispenser variant,….etc.
Yes, ballistic missiles can deploy submunitions…..or mini warheads.
I had enough of your bullshit talking nonsense from previous comments already. This is not the 1st time that you play smart ass with your wild theories. If you have PROOF about “mini warheads” on ANY kind of missile(NOT “sub-munitions” but word CONVENTIONAL WARHEADS must be used not to be confused with nuke MIRV’s )than post the LINK PLEASE ! In the future I do not want any more of your comments without PROVES because you do not strike me as honest person.
Submunitions are mini warheads, don’t be a mitocan. They operate in a similar principle as MIRVS. Check out the example of Smerch submunitions. Smerch is not a ballistic missile, however it’s deployment of submunitions is applicable for ballistic conventional warheads. Jesus does not strike you as an honest person? Why do you think I post under Jesus? Jesus Christ said, I am the way, the truth and the life.
We were talking about CONVENTIONAL WARHEADS on ballistic missiles ! Give me the PROVES OR FUCK OFF you FUCKING IDIOT ! I had enough of you you bastard you are BLOCKED!!!!!!!
You filthy motherfucking LIAR I had enough of you bollocks ! YOU LIAR !!!
Listen mitocan, is Iskander a ballistic missile? It has various warheads, submunition being one of them. You are rather obtuse and very dense unable to receive anything. Bye.
Dude, I proved some of your statements wrong and didn’t call you a bevy of names. Take control of yourself and be civil. We’re here to learn and understand, not fight amongst ourselves and be disruptive. Get a grip.
What statements? What are you on about?! You have something to say on “conventional multiple warheads” on ballistic missiles or not ?! If not than leave me alone please! I wasn’t talking to you at all so why are you bothering me if you have nothing to say on topic of the conversation? So what is your problem? Who gives you right to lecture here? Was I talking about you? Did I mention you here in this conversation?! It is between me and this Jesus guy and it is not 1st time that he bothers me with deliberate provocations. So I had enough of that from him. I do not come here to be ridiculed . And if you are that “Jesus” under some other account I can only repeat my insults to you. That’s all i have to say to you.
SAM’s although effective, would be needed in massive quantities. The US would just keep throwing men and planes at Iran, or Russia, until Iran or Russia ran out of missiles. The US used that methodology to bomb Germany in WWII. They US simply threw so many planes into the fight, that the German pilots ran out of bullets. When you don’t care about the losses suffered by your own troops, it makes it hard for a humane enemy to defend itself.
Couple of major mistakea here (imho). First and main thing – one of US army weakest points is very low tolerance to manpower losses. 2nd – when US/UK actually engaged in WWII there was little left from German Luftwaffe and army in general. It was a done deal and west jumped at the opportunity they were waiting for. To my knowledge they would welcome both outcomes (Russia winning or Germany taking the upper hand) and facts are that they were helping both sides. Those who conduct supranational governing always prefer “multioptinal” plans.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/8f/Ussb-1.svg/372px-Ussb-1.svg.png
That was then. This is now. The US approach, once based on the mass production of their assembly lines, has changed drastically. Now they make relatively small numbers of very, very, very, veryveryvery, expensive kit. And most of the high end stuff they make rather slowly. Cream a bunch of their planes with missiles and it’d be years before they could plug the hole. Tudor Miron is also correct that the US strenuously avoids losing people; if they started taking significant casualties, actually losing a lot of planes with pilots on board, the American people would be horribly shocked and whoever was in power could say goodbye to their jobs, because the US public thinks, with bedrock faith, that the US is invincible and any politician who presided over them finding out different would be gone at warp speed no matter what the defence corporations said.
The US has a few very expensive planes, but most of the US air force is F16’s, 1200 of them, and 900 F15’s. The expensive headline grabbers like the F22, 187 planes, 185 F35’s and only 20 B2 bombers. The US still relies on WWI style battles where men are used as cannon fodder.
Because of the public outcry over the casualties in Vietnam, mostly caused by friendly fire, the US does use mercenaries like al Qaeda and ISIS in its regime change wars. However in a real full scale war the whole 1.5 million troops would be used, and conscripts after the regulars got used up. You don’t keep a 1.5 million man army, if you are concerned about casualties, or having a well trained army.
Well… one has to start somewhere…
Yes i really like what i am seeing. Last time they make cosmetic copy rather than trying to seriously understand the aerodynamic engineering in what they have. Hopefully they can make F14 copies next.
Copying aerodynamic solution is not that easy. Look at F1 grid – all cars look identical to unrtrained eye but their aero performance is very different. What anyone starting to design planes has to do is develop understanding of flow phenomena in miriad of different conditions (aoa, yaw, roll etc., etc.)
Obviosuly what we see from Iranians now is far from modern state of the art but as I said – one has to start somewhere.
Just a reminder country that can made and operated it’s own air force would be impervious to regime change color revolution operations the ZoG love so much.
Not really. It didn’t help USSR in 1991 or Ukraine in 2014. We should not look for simple solutions and answers – things are complicated and require “looking at big picture”.
Yes there’s the population mostly as well.
Yes and no, American power, and the US is the only nation preventing world peace comes from its financial system. Destroy the American economy, and you destroy the threat. Destroying the US economy is complex, but luckily the Americans are intent on doing it themselves.
LEARN! The “American” economy is not American at all. It is utterly controlled, from top to bottom, by the Rothschild cabal in the City of London, as are MOST economies world wide. Learn just whom your real enemy is. Without that knowledge there is not any use to even complain, much less fight.
Americans always find someone else to blame for their crimes, such a lame cowardly people.
Sinbad, you’re totally correct. But it’s not just “Americans” it’s the white man. However, I’m not saying it’s because of their “race” or genetics. Through an “accident” of history they’ve conquered the world, much as the Germans conquered France in 1940. And it’s gone to their heads. A kind of Aristocracy-itis But many of them are waking up on both the left and the right today. And I’m confident there is going to be a “color” revolution in the US soon too c. 2026. Read Brinton Crane’s Anatomy of Revolution, As Lenin said, the revolution begins with a split in the ruling class. Trump is no Hitler. He’s a Nicholas II.
Go get a mirror yourself.
Fairly soon you’ll see US removed from its role of world policeman (this process is going on for several decafes without notice but recently it is becoming obvious to everyone. Problem is that it is done not for benefit of us – ordinary people. It’s going according to plans established by those who’s objectives are hostile to humanity. However, nothing is predetermined. At this juncture in time we may go one way or another and which way will prevail depends on the level of awareness of each and everyone of us. I will put it simple – thinking that removing US, or removing Jews from the face of this planet will bring us peace and fair society on this planet is futile. Those are mere instruments but not the cause of the problem
Well said. Greed and lust for power are the drivers of these vehicles.
This looks like an ongoing IAAF trainer project – based on older US models as below – but thing with Iranian leadership is they always work on premise of projecting disinformation – to divert and confuse their enemies as to what they are doing.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a76a779e92ad270f36352e08899dc6f9cfe7bff8e130e0f8d362369b91679c69.jpg
?!!? How can one do “over-estimation and under-estimation of their capabilities” in the same time on the same subject?! What would be purpose, when two extremes nullify each other?!? That is totally senseless from logical point of view… That is not even confusing… but plane stupid. I don’t think Iranians are stupid. They are not very advanced in tech but they are not stupid. They just don’t tell us all about the project which is absolutely logical.
.They have made their 1st upgraded clone of 3rd generation jet. Ther are no specs on capabilities of that jet. That’s all…end of the story
‘How can one do “over-estimation and under-estimation of their capabilities” in the same time on the same subject?!’
Firstly, where did the comment state on ‘the same subject’?
Secondly, this is why you aren’t working in disinformation field.
Honestly, it’s fun to be mean to people on the internet And so easy too, because we’re surrounded by easily manipulated fools. That so-called “jet” can’t fly. On every photo, the front ports of the engines are covered but one. And on the one exposed port, there’s no engine to be seen. Ha ha ha, And you all fall for it. “one has to start somewhere”? OMG This person has zero knowledge of jet combat. The antiquated phoenix missile system alone, would would make these instant suicide machines with zero chance to hit anything, assuming it could fly at all. I don’t believe it for a second. And what’s with the Egyptian hieroglyphs on the side? LoL. What fools believe. This is simply a PR campaign. And what are they going to install in there? Coffee can turbo engine? And if a jet can’t do an immelmann maneuver today, it’s basically defenseless against any kind of missile.
Covering the engines inlets is normal procedure for pre-flight fighter jets in order to avoid contamination of the engines.
F-14 copiies? lascia stare la materia se non sei preparato
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/F-14_Tomcat_preparing_to_refuel.jpg
F-14 (prima foto) ti sembra che gli assomigli?
Northrop F-5 Tiger vorrai dire………..(seconda foto)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/761541_AF-23_F-5N_of_VFC-13_%283144206492%29.jpg/800px-761541_AF-23_F-5N_of_VFC-13_%283144206492%29.jpg
It is based on F5 tiger they have and they still have the f14 with them have been kept in operations for a while which mean they should already gained enough understanding of it’s inner working to attempt a copies of it. Yes it was f5 copies none dispute that.
It osntia copy of the F-5, it is literally an old F-5 which they repaired… and present as a newly produced aircraft. Laughable.
None really know what the inside avionic, radar, etc. Could be more advanced, could be more redundant as well. If they can field this without subsequent technical problem they got themselves independence in airpower which can offset any militancy attacks so common as the western proxies operations even under trade embargo specifically aimed to curb their ability to defend itself within their border. It’s an old F5 aircraft yes but that’s not the point. The point they started off the production. From then on they can keep acquire more expertise in it and make more advanced type for their own use.
They didn’t produce a copy of the F-5, they just serviced an old airframe, repainted it and supposedly put some of their own electronics on board, which we cannot know about anyway.
Sure. Until they can meet mass production phase you can think that way fair enough.
First they have to build a prototype, then they can plan for “mass production”.
Sure.
Guys the Iranians are trying their best to survive… we all know that this jet is third generation but if they mass produce it ,it is signal that if they carry on trrying within 20 years they might come out with something new, if everything goes right. My country produce the super tucano it is not even a jet and it is very expensive. To produce planes like the F15 which is thge best in world is very costly and to produce F35 man you need to be among the 8 most rich countries in the world.
3rd gen? That depends on the avionics, weapons and engines. This Iranian reverse-engineered and home-built F-5 clone will be much superior to any “real” F-5 that has ever flown, so its really a 4th gen fighter where it counts.
You can make a case for that. I’ll take a reliable low maintenance 3rd gen over an unreliable high maintenance 4th gen any time of the week.
Very optimistic and based on hope only.
F-15 is the best? Oh, well…
The Kosar fighter jet is nothing groundbreaking, nor is it nothing.
It’s essentially the Northrop F-5F Tiger which is %100 made in Iran (which is a huge step that very few countries in the world have achieved towards the next level; an indigenous design). In addition, there are updates such as laser INS/GPS navigation system, MFD (Multi Function Display) and HUD (Head-up Display).
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/21ef7f90523f2a5c246cfc10349071c4fc21283a22ed728afdc76aa299fa06ea.png
How reasonable is to rely on GPS when your main enemies Israel & US can switch off GPS signal any time they want? How come Iran didn’t try to get Russian GLONASS or Chinese system?!
There are millions of GPS-reliant systems globally including US and Israel’s own navigation systems. What do you mean by “switch off GPS signal”?
Signal can be intercepted and denied access (key) to Iran. Even though Iran uses only civil non paying channel with much less precision. They don’t have access to military channel.
So much from me I’ll be off now…. for quite some time
Iran need more advanced combat planes.
Congrats. However, I was hoping to see them roll out that stealth fighter.
praticamente un F-5 Tiger II riverniciato a nuovo e rattoppato….
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_F-5
That is why Trump wants to destroy Iran. A muslim country must remain at the level of stone age, like saudia arabia.
Saudi Arabia in the absence of “stone” are stuck with…. “sand age”
An attacking stealth fighter looses stealth once it fires one of its anti-aircraft missiles. A stealth plane radar reflection changes as it rolls out the AA missile to fire. The thermal trail of stealth jet and AA missile can be seen with infrared especially closeup. A 1945 FW 190 had altitude of 45000 feet and cruise speed of 300 MPH. It could launch off undeveloped field unlike modern jet fighters and stay a lot for hours. It was produced in 1945 with 12000 copies despite air superiority and heavy air strikes of Allies. The FW 190 pilots were easily trained and expendable unlike modern jet pilots. If stealth planes attack Iran they will meet a few dozen of these easily defeated jet fighters . Most of the Iranian fast jets will be destroyed on ground or unable to launch due to long runways for fast jets destroyed. The Iranians could have created 1000 FW 190 for cost of three dozen of these fast jets. A nearby FW 190 can see the infrared missile trail and observe the IR signature of the stealth plane. If the swarm of FW 190 attack a stealth jet, the stealth fighter will lose stealth as it fires a AA missile and it only carries 6 AA missiles. The FW 190 can be mixed with active radar systems that are switched on at close range from behind the Stealthy attacker. The stealth attacker must attack the closest FW190 and those FW 190 behind it. After exhausting 6 AA missiles the stealth fighter is a sitting duck with minimal offensive capability. It was never designed for a swarm attack of greater than 1 dozen fighters. Any of the surrounding thirty FW 190 could carry a AA missile. The attacking stealth fighter has no idea which nearby fighter could carry an expensive AA missile. A single AA missile is likely worth more than whole plane. Most of the defending FW 190 are unarmed with even one AA missile but are merely decoys to draw fire and expose position of the stealth fighter . The Iranian use of high speed attack planes produced in few numbers prevented slow efficient high altitude deliver systems for AA missiles. This plane show Iran competing in race for fast fighters that it can never win and should never have attempted . A low speed propeller aircraft is useful for glide bombs and ground support . Iran should not compete in the jet fighter arena when its resources would have been better used in other endeavors. Iran does not try to have an aircraft carrier nor should it make a high speed fighter jet. Never compete in a race you can not win or play according to terms created by your enemies . Russia never adopted this strategy because it can compete at least halfway in high speed stealth game. Russia makes billions of it high speed fighter jets. Its a business for the attack jet producers.
Those days of US hit and run are long gone Iran has S-300s en masse to prevent undetected attacks. They would have to attack Iran in 2008. No it’s no longer feasible. The US army knows that. It’s just that they forgot to tell the politicians.
Actually scratch that they just need to rebuilt that cheap biplane of ww1 equipped them with autonomous and remote control system and stick their best cheap AA missiles in it. Let it fly long endurance. The f35 will probably launch it’s missile at those cheap practically target drone at the maximum distance because their pilot is very afraid getting caught in it’s edgeless overpriced rc aircraft and then they go home after all 4 missiles used in which they can get back to what they’re doing in their cabin for hours of maintenance time before next dispatch. Nobody hurt in the process, Lockheed can have it’s missiles and maintenance cost money, win win solution.
Stealth does not hide the thermal infrared heat of engine from high altitude cameras. The gas flares from oil well can be detected at 200 miles from satellite or 100 miles from high altitude camera. w w w .aaas.org/page/eyes-nigeria-gas-flaring You can bet that the hot exhaust gas of a jet can be seen from similar distance. The real contest is in signal analysis . But signal analysis does not look sexy or powerful like a supersonic plane. The real issue is how developed are Iran sensor systems? But that is all classified and not sexy
Here’s a new video about Kosar fighter jet (couldn’t find an English version):
http://iribnews.ir/files/fa/news/1397/5/30/2526949_749.mp4
Okay, if you all say that this is f5 tiger copy, that’s fine. Let’s wait to see f14 copy. Personally, can’t wait.
I would bet that it outperforms the F5. Iran already produces their own Mig 21 which outperforms the F5 so why would they just match the F5?
Didn’t know about Mig 21,but I bet it outperform f5, this Iranian jet.
Honestly, it’s fun to be mean to people on the internet And so easy too, because we’re surrounded by easily manipulated fools. That so-called “jet” can’t fly. On every photo the front ports of the engines are covered but one. And on the one exposed port, there’s no engine to be seen. Ha ha ha, And you all fall for it. “one has to start somewhere”? OMG This person has zero knowledge of jet combat. The antiquated phoenix missile system alone, would would make these instant suicide with zero chance to hit anything, assuming it could fly at all.
Stealth does not hide the thermal infrared heat of engine from high altitude cameras. The gas flares from oil well can be detected at 200 miles from satellite or 100 miles from high altitude camera. w w w .aaas.org/page/eyes-nigeria-gas-flaring You can bet that the hot exhaust gas of a jet can be seen from similar distance. The real contest is in signal analysis . But signal analysis does not look sexy or powerful like a supersonic plane. The real issue is how developed are Iran sensor systems? But that is all classified and not sexy.