ISIS Promises Attack On Vatican

matt, if you really read Qur’an and know “enough” about religions, how come you can’t recognize what ISIS does is against Islam or any other religion?

Would you care to let me know which parts of Qur’an did you read and if you read from Qur’an itself, or the sites who “expose” Qur’an?

We didn’t talk about the “invention” of the religions, you may be right, you may be wrong. I said ISIS is not Muslim and you said I’m denying a “fact”. I can tell you my reasons, you tell me yours, good?

It has been 25 years ago, i don’t remember wich sura’s i red. I remember though that there were many warnings for non believers, christians and jews that Allah would severely punish them for not following islam. I also remember that only Allah van judge, so that part is forgotten by a lot of muslims. Isis is using a lot of texts from the quran to justify their deeds, this you can not deny. Therefore it would never exist without islam. The sharia law, wich comes from both the quran and the hadith has some severe and barbaric laws, wich in the time of mohamed were considered normal, not only within islam, but today do not fit in. ISIS is using these laws to kill people, this is a fact. That makes them a very nasty branch of muslims, denial will not help to modernize islam, wich is very necesary in my opinion.

I’d appreciate if you look it up again. Qur’an has 114 Surahs (chapters) and each Surah has several Ayahs (verses). Ayahs can’t be interpreted separately and individually, they come together. What ISIS and “Qur’an exposers” do, is to take ONE Ayah and literally translate it without mentioning what came before and after that. In every Ayah who talks about engaging and fighting the infidels, it certainly says do so IF they attacked your land. I advise you to look it up if you’re going to talk about it.

I don’t deny that groups like ISIS uses verses of Qur’an, the way I explained. If you believe in a religion, you must believe in everything it says otherwise you’re not a follower of that particular religion.

Islam emphasis on defence, show me one verse that says Muslims must attack others’ lands to spread Islam. ISIS uses separate verses to achieve what it wants. Islam counts burning of human bodies a great sin (in cases it’s permitted, like plague), burning alive humans an unthinkable sin. ISIS burns humans alive. Islam counts kin-slaughter a great sin, no matter the reason. Just read ISIS members’ confessions (and local witness reports) about the ISIS members who “executed” their fathers and other kin, because they didn’t believe in the Caliphate.

I suggest knowing the subject if you’re going to talk about it and accuse others who have this familiarity of “denial”. I saw you jumped in the matters which you had little info about before, you’re age is not in the range that permits doing so. You should know better. ISIS’ ideology, whatever it is, it is not Islam.

You are either blind for reality or very hypocrite. Islam defensive???? So how the hell did Iran and the rest of the ME became islamic????? There was a peacefull conversion to islam in west africa and south east asia, but it was mostly done with the sword and dishonest taxes!! The problem with most religions is that they leave a lot of space for (mis)interpretation. This is why christians, muslems, hindu’s and even buddists can be violent monsters or nice peace loving persons

Your reasoning is personal, do not forget that. I believe my knowledge about humanity and its cultures, politics and religions is better then most people, but someone else can still have another opinion. To say that my knowledge is not big is not a very mature way of debate.

How about reading Qur’an for a change, when you base your argument on it? So you want to take it personal, do as you wish but in any debate you need to arm yourself with the necessary information. In this particular case, the needed information is directly in a book named Qur’an. You’re perfectly free if you don’t feel like to read it. I, as someone who reads and understands this matter say ISIS actions are not based on Islam. So do many Muslims who know their religion. You don’t like this argument and think what you read 25 years ago (never said what was your source, even then) and barely remembers it accuse me of denying a “fact”. I told you two examples of ISIS actions. A third one is to mutilate the bodies of the dead and even consuming (means eating) parts of their flesh, heart, etc. This too is a great sin that any believer avoids (this ruling has exceptions, like someone be in a condition that if doesn’t eat from a corpse he will surely die, but I doubt that was the condition ISIS members faced when eating a man’s heart).

Now you boast about your vast knowledge that you yourself “believe” is better than most people. Well I have news for you: Apparently you know nothing about this particular matter.

Instead of taking it personally when discuss something, try to gather the necessary info about it. Good for you for knowing some bits and pieces about many subjects and thanks for letting me to have an opinion. Here we don’t talk about religions in general and if they are real or man-made, we’re talking about ISIS and Islam.

PS. Upvoting oneself is not mature too. Fix it and I’ll remove this line, I like to believe that you did it by mistake.

Ok, it is hypocrite then… Acusing me of getting personal, while you did about my lack of knowledge….. I red the QURAN back then! The source was the QURAN! I don’t like to read it again! Its full of outdated dogma’s, like all religions. It cannot explain why God is good but it also created evil. It just doesn’t make sense! What is the point to create an imperfect being that must be tested with its human feelings that contradict the laws of god. If the human succeds it will be rewarded with eternal life. The story is ridiculous. And the fact remains that a small group of muslems use the Quran and not another source to justify their cruel deeds. Not only ISIS, there is a whole bunch of other extremists out there that ALL use the QURAN and the HADITH to kill, mutulate and opress others!! The Christians did the same for centuries, another Abrahamic religion. You gave me some examples that should proove ISIS are no muslems, but i think it does not proove anything. As we know, humans are imperfect, so are muslems. You ignore the fact that Islam was mostly spread with violence, another sign of hypocrisy.

What is upvoted? I upvoted myself?

matt, when you say their source is Qur’an and you read it yourself, don’t you think you should tell me which part? I know what they say, it’s not that difficult to extract what you want from any book, as long as you take pieces and mutilate them.

Yes, it seems you did, unless there’s a third matt!

Sura 1 Al-Fatihah, ayah 4 and 7 refer to punishment and fearing god Sura2 ayah 7, 10, 15, 19, 20,21, 24, 26, 27, 34, 35, 36, 39, 40, 41, 48, 49, 52, 55, 59, 61, 64, 65, and some others all about threats, warnings and punishments. Most others are about the greatness of Allah, the narcist. or they were stolen from the bible.

AND STILL NO REACTION ON THE VIOLENT SPREADING OF ISLAM

What do 1-4 and 1-7 say?

No way!!! They were forced you liar! I spoke to many Iranians!! I studied the history! The translation on sura 1 comes from an islamic website, so it is not in their interest to misinterpret. There is NO way you can MIX arab expansion with spreading of islam!!! Its the same, blind fool!! Syrians did not speak arab, Iraqis did not, egyptians did not, north africans did not BEFORE being FORCED to become muslems. Forcing was done in many ways. Higher taxes at first and later expulsion from many professions, career posibilities and at regular times MASSACRES YOU CANNOT FOOL ME WITH YOUR DENIAL OF THE BRUTAL SIDE OF ISLAM

Please give me a translation nonetheless. Don’t you think your knowledge of this subject is insufficient? I gave you a link to online Qur’an with FIVE different English translations. Surely there must be something sinister in the Al-Fatiha surah? I gather you can’t speak or even understand Arabic, am I right?

You may read my reply again. I said “Iran” accepted Islam, not northern Africa. The biggest evidence right in front of your eye is that ANY average Iranian is able to understand the words spoken in Sassanid era. The writing is different but the pronounciation is the same. Even a few words of the cylinder of Cyrus is understandable to us.

Interesting to notice the same people who say Islam expanded by sword remain silent on the expansion of, let’s say Christianity in the Americas. Today most of Americas are identified as Christians. Did Christianity expanded by sword too? Was the motivation of Conquistadors expansion of their religion? A lot of African countries are also Christian, but you’re only interested to single out Muslim ones, who converted to Islam in result of Omavids, Abbasids, Fatimids and others’ expansionist policies. Hence the change in language and traditions and everything, unlike what happened in Iran, Afghanistan, Indian subcontinent and even Malaya and Indonesia. In this part of the world, Islam accepted voluntarily and the language, tradition and everything is preserved.

Now you’re losing it, insulting and using the words to describe me that I don’t appreciate. If you’re unable to have a polite discussion please say so. I don’t like the way you’re steering this conversation.

You are not reading my comments carefully. I DID mention the christians!! Its the same nasty and violent ideology, both rooted in judeaism. Fortunately Europe had the Enlightmentin wich jews also participated.In islam there was a time around 1200 ad that was open for debate and humanism. I mentioned Rumi in earlier discussions with you, but there were many others. Even the first rough evolution theory was born in Persia. After the mongol massacres Islam in at least the ME started to decline. The only advantage after that came from the osmans, but that was mostly militairy. Islam has a deep problem with modernisation and violence, you should admit that

No, I read all you write carefully. My question was if the conversion of the Americas was the result of Christianity’s expansion, or imperialistic tendencies of the Spanish empire. The whole of Americas and much of Africa converted to Christianity but you won’t hear “Christianity expanded by sword or bullet” nonsense, yet we all know the genocide of local redskin Indians and sub-Saharan Africans. Their conversion to Christianity was the by-product of the greed of the European colonialists who happened to be Christian.

The same goes for the conversion of Levant, Asia Minor and north Africa. It was a by-product of various dinasties who happened to be Muslims. If their expansion was only to promote their religion, they wouldn’t attack and invade eachother: Abbasids attacked Omavids and Fatimids, Fatimids attacked Abbasids and various Muslim rulers of north Africa and Ottomans started their expansion right by invading other Muslim lands first, failing at invading Iran and then they went to attack Europe. They never stopped attacking us, their last attack was at the first world war.

About Islam has problems with modernity. The most important part is the definition of modernity. Is dressing (or actually not dressing) count as modernity? Are modern scientific theories and technological advancement is modernity? Do you really believe Islam at it’s core is violent? I’d like you to meet hardcore Hindus which you seem so fond of. Have you ever met them? Did you talk to them? Oh, life is so precious for them, as long as it’s not the life of an untouchable or Muslim or Christian or any human-being other than themselves. Do you know what they think about other religions? How about Shamanism in central Asia? Particularly Mongol Shamanism with their beautiful horse and ancestor worshiping? During all human history, can you name any people more violent than the Norse? None of the above are among Abrahamic religions, mind you.

You think Muslims are so violent for executing murderers, do you think the same about the mass murders by non-religious people like China’s Maoists, Shinto empire of Japan and Bolshevik Soviets of ’30s? Was Nazis also Muslims? Are Israelis (who aren’t religious at all, Jews do not believe in having a country) also Muslims? Have you meet the Leninist Kurds you love so much? Do you know their take on murder or incest?

I agree that their crimes does not justify violence by others, but singling out Islam is something more than hypocritical.

While I can’t talk much about other sects of Islam, I know Shi’ism. Attacking others is not permitted, only defence and it’s clearly evident on the behaviour. Shi’a stance on science is also evident.

I repeat it here again. Do not talk about the matters you know so little about. Learning doesn’t kill you, you know. Do not think for a second that these violent Wahhabis are Muslims, as they are selective to take the parts which they want and ignore the majority of what Islam says, just like what you’re doing. They kill Muslims thousand times more than they kill people of other religions. While Wahhabism is older than these groups (Wahhabism also expanded by horrorful crimes) These groups appeared about 40 years ago and are bastard childs of Wahhabism and western imperialism. There was violent groups before that (like MB in Egypt) but they were very limited in numbers and not popular, unlike anything we see today.

No, you are very WRONG. I NEVER EVER said that ONLY ISLAM is violent!!!! I said MOST religions! And the worst have been CHRISTIANITY and ISLAM and they still are!! And sure ANY hardcore believer in ANY human FANTASY (ideology) can be a cruel monster. What IRRITATES me is that you REFUSE to admit that muslims cannot!!! So actualy you put muslims higher then anybody else!! DESPICABLE AND HYPOCRITE The MAIN problem with islam (90 percent are not shia) is that they take the quran literaly and questioning some parts is considered a crime and not open for debate. That is what i ment with modernity, with a changing world with new science, new ideas, new technologies humanity also needs a new story. Mohamed was very modern for his time, but today we would call him cruel, woman unfriendly and a pedophile. These are the facts for the mayority on this planet. Even most moslems wouldn’t like it if their 9 year old daughter would marry a 40 + years old man.

Do you have problems with reading? I wrote that spread of Christianity in Americas and Africa cannot be linked to it’s violence. It’s a byproduct of imperialism. I said the same thing about the spread of Islam in NA. I wrote the violence is not limited to Muslims or even Abrahamic religions. Gave you examples of others, religious or atheists.

You’re free to be irritated by your imagination but I never claimed that Muslims cannot be violent. All I said is that spread of Islam from Iran towards east was voluntarily and gave you an evidence that in those lands, neither language nor traditions changed. I likened spread of Islam in NA to spread of Christianity in sub-Saharan Africa and Americas. Those religions were spread due to conquest for other reasons, greed, expansionism, imperialism and so on. These conquests did not happen to spread the religion.

Why do you interpret my plain words the way you want? Are you trying to create a strawman argument?

Reading, interpreting and questioning Qur’an is NOT a crime where I live or any other Shi’a society. I can’t vouch for other societies but I know what you say is true for Wahhabis. Even Sunnis don’t count them one of their own (according to the last year’s Sunni conference in Grozny). There are dedicated universities in Iran for that aim, where people of various religions come together and debate.

Different times and different cultures. We can’t beat people of 1500 years ago by today’s standards. Our prophet married his first wife when he was 25 and she was 40, his marriage to Ayesha was what you wrote. It was norm then, but not anymore. That’s why a lot of Muslim countries have a minimum age for marriage in their laws. Our (Shi’a) jurisprudence is fluid, it changes by time. A lot of what applied in different times and different conditions does not apply today.

I read a lot of the things you write in “enlightening” websites dedicated to show the “true” face of Islam. They too, select parts and pieces and reach to the conclusions they want. Idiots who go so far, they claim Muslims killed so much Iranians, they turned a mill by their blood, made wheat into flour and baked it into bread and then eat it, among many other insane stories.

Yet again, I do NOT want you to accept my views, I just want to show you you’re biased towards my views. You keep yours and let me keep mine, that’s my religion.

Garga, i don’t have problems with reading. As we can see both. Written words can be interpreted in diferent ways. You misinterpret my writing, i misinterpret yours. With the bible, quran and actualy any writing happens the same. I never got my knowledge from anti islam websites but i red a lot of history books, watched many history documentaries and talked with a lot diferent people. Islam was not voluntairily spread in Iran I think. It was an occupation by arab invaders at first and from that moment various laws made it easier to become muslim, so many people switched! The leftovers were forced because in time the mayority was muslim and minorities are always marginalized. Especialy in the past without any jourmalists showing attrocities. I red a lot of osman history, wich was pretty bloody towards minorities. Similar to the inqusition in Europe. The conquests that the arabs and the europeans did can not be seen apart from the religions they brought. Religion was always used as a tool for power. I do not try to change your personal mind on Islam and i really appreciate your way of communication, so much more civilized then most people on southfront. Good luck with your enlightened Islam, i wish more sunnis could become shia. We have a lot of sunni here in Europe and some cause serious troubles. I am sometimes worried, fascism will grab power once again and then kill or expell the muslims. I would not support this at all, it is against my nature. But the spread of salafism should be stopped. And it is part of islam.

matt, in the past when a land was conquered, a lot of things changed, least of them the language, the other important matter is the genetical structure of population. Take England for example. Their language is nothing like what they spoke 1000 years ago, before William the conqueror. Anatolia, Morocco, Egypt, south America. In all of them the language changed and genetics changed too. This is not the case in Iran and eastward. These are the most important clues for you right there. I’m not kidding about the ability of Iranians to understand Sassanid era Persian (~2000-1400 years ago).

I agree on using religion as a tool. It happened before and it will happen again. What I meant is that Christianity and Islam does not ask their followers to spread it by violence but any group (and one of the most brutal of all times was Ottomans as you mentioned) use it as an excuse for their greed of conquest. Islam stresses on the defence and almost all of Qur’an’s verses about Jihad are talking about fighting the infidels who invade Muslims’ lands. Of course Qur’an talks about Muslim lands because it’s a book for Muslims.

I know about the Sunnis who see ISIS as their religious brothers. Perhaps you heard about Shi’a killings in Pakistan? They believe if they kill enough Shi’as they will be absolved of all their sins. Wahhabis spread this kind of mentality. That cancer is spreading more everyday for various reasons. Those Sunnis were brought in Europe by European governments and my guess is it’s not because of their good of heart. It will become nasty in Europe because your governments do not want to stop it.

I hope other Muslims see the Wahhabis for what they really are. The conference in Grozny which I mentioned before was a very good sign.

What is the clue about persian did not change a lot over time? Is it a fixed culture without evolution? I guess not. Yes, i know about shia killings in Pakistan. The sunni’s i talked about are European, from Moroccan and Turkish descent. I trained them on our office. The import of salafi ideas came with the oil money that funded the building of mosques all over the planet. Hopefully humanity will stop burning oil very soon. The immigration (big companies urged the governments to alow that) started almost 60 years ago, the salafi ideas import started 20 years after that. We have to accept that Europe is an immigration continent like North and South America. South east Asia and China are starting to become immigration countries, the oil countries are immigration countries. Wherever there is a growing economy immigrants will go there. Europe is trying to do immigration in a decent way, unlike for example the oil arabs that don’t give any rights to the immigrants. I think this is barbaric and egoist. Very NON muslim, by the way. I also think nationalism is a wrong concept and will not solve any problems for the future, on the contrary it will fuel hatred and violence. We should move towards a world governent like a federation of nations. But, yes i am an anarchist and a hippy. I have a dream!

I gave you the clue: it’s the language. The culture shifts generation by generation and cannot be a good cornerstone for this evaluation. I know that. Spread of this kind of ideology started about 40 years ago, more or less the same date you reached to. The turning point was the Soviet invasion (or presence, based on who you ask) of Afghanistan and the creation of Mujahedeen which now looks like an experimental project for future use. Regarding immigration, I think both Sheikdoms and Europe do it wrong. In any case, the country should be careful not to turn immigration into a problem and they must preserve their culture. In other word, the immigrants must assimilate into the host society, not the other way around. I think the kind of nationalism that borders fascism is not desirable. I’m all for nationalism if it’s the driving force of preserving the country, not wars. We still are not ready for the world government and by we I don’t mean the individuals but our politicians. As long as they don’t understand all people are potentially equals it will do more harm than good.

Whaaat? You? A hippie? I could never guess! ;)

Don’t worry, Europeans are not becoming wahabi’s : ) Immigration always leads to some problems, One of the problems with Europe is that it still has to learn to accept that it is an immigration area. But immigration changes cultures, that is unavoidable. Cultures change all the time anyway. And in this time of globalization, cultures grow slowly towards eachother. Internet, science and A.I. will help a lot with this. Is it a good idea? mayebe not, but it will only stop if there will be an extinction wave or the worst massacre humanity ever experienced

I’m very much worried. Europe won’t become Wahhabi but it will become a safe haven for them. Even tolerance has some limits.

I guess this area is also one of our personal differences. I’m for preserving cultures, not only on national scale but on smaller level, cities, areas, ethnicity and tribal. Of course culture evolves, but this evolution is natural and organic. I think all should preserve their culture and avoid creating an ugly mixture of shapeless, odourless, standardized norm.

But what do I know? I’m not a hippie architect gnawing on ‘shrooms. :'(

I agree on preverving cultures, but i am afraid we will grow into a Mac World… that is not happening because of immigration but because of capitalism and technologies.

Do not get me wrong, i love the diferences in culture. Recently i listened to this guys LIVE with my mother: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8uYt-m_-9k

I will read about persian history on wikipedia now. If you think i should read other sources as well, please send me a link.

It will be a loooong read. Which part of the history of Persia are you interested in?

Ofcourse i started ar the fall of the sassanid empire and the muslim conquest!

So you started at the last %20. Wikipedia is not a good source for history. For the most part, Iran’s history in English (or German) is the work of 2-3 foreign authors. I’ll look to see if I can find good sources by Iranian historians in English.

The other 80 % is mostly lost. I know for a fact that about 90 percent of what we know about the Greeks and Romans comes from sources that have been written 800 or more years AFTER it happened. How is this with Persian history? i guess it is not that different. Please tell me if i am wrong.

How come you think Wikipedia is not a good source? I disagree. It is very detailed in many cases. If you want, you can improve it!

I just red that recently there is debate about this period. Wikipedia also mentions Parvaneh Pourshariati. Do you know that name?

The newest foreign sources about history of Iran are from about half a century ago and were based on the books written many years after the actual events. No, you’re right. But during this 50 years, Iranian historians and archeologists were at work. A lot of discoveries were made and I’m not sure how many are translated.

One little correction. It’s not Persian history, it’s history of Iran. Persia was and is actually a very small part of Iran (more or less the same size as the current province of Fars). The word “Iran” is very old and was used to describe the country at least from the era of Medes which know for sure because it is carved on stone. You may find different results using “history of Iran” instead of “Persian History”.

Ok, many people use Persia for Iran, even Iranians i met, so i got confused i guess… By the way, did you check this link with music? I wonder if you liked it.

Persia and Iran are used interchangeably, but are different in fact. Persia is Iran’s xenonym but in fact it’s a small part of Iran, kinda comparable with Holland and the Netherlands. Most likely you won’t find anything about the civilization in Iran plateau or greater Iran using the name Persia. But if your aim is Achimeneds, I guess Persia is fine.

Thank you for posting that link, yes I checked it the same day. I have a strange taste (or in fact have no taste) in Iranian traditional music. Kalhor is a great musician, pity I’ve got no understanding or brain to enjoy his work. But I guess it’s different for you. I wonder if you like singing (avaaz) too?

Ok, i understand for Persia, may i ask if you are Persian? I love almost all kind of music, i don’t know avaaz singing (just know the website that collects signatures for mostly good causes) Do you like Googoosh? Do you like any music?

Yes I am, Iranian and ethnically Persian. Avaaz is the Persian word for sing, but as I didn’t have a better word to describe the Iranian traditional singing I used the Persian word. It’s a totally different world in music and it’s own classification. Here’s an example by Banaan, another by Marziyeh

Yes, I like Googoosh, exclusively her older works, before 1979. I guess that’s because of the genius songwriters and composers who made them. I have an old-man taste in music, specially Persian music. I even hate some of the new generation “artists” with a passion.

Unfortunately, we don’t have any noticeable opera singers. I don’t know if you like that.

In any case, if you’re interested in Iranian music, I may be able to introduce some to you, traditional or otherwise.

I am a BIG music lover, medival european music, BACH, opera, from romantic to stravinsky, GYPSY (balkan, flamenco and other forms), TURKISH, arab, PERSIAN, georgian, afghan, INDIAN, cambodian, indonesian, japanese, chinese LATIN, most forms from the spanish cultures and BRASILEIRO, AFRICAN like malinese, senegalese, ethiopian, soukous and other forms, REGGAE, rock, disco, FUNK, SOUL, JAZZ, pop, DANCE not all forms and all kind of crossovers and blend forms. Music helps me to handle life!

I loved Marzeh (a bit the same feeling as a melancholic gypsy song) and will listen to Banaan now If you want, please send me some more names!

Sure. Monir Vakili opera and folklore singeress.

Mohammad Nouri, it’s a google search link in Persian, choose one of the songs appear above the page.

Akbar Golpayegani (Golpa).

And one of my favourites of all times, Hayedeh. In this particular page the first song is not by Hayedeh, but her sister Mahasti after Hayedeh’s death.

Enjoy.

I like this song a lot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ-5-By9e4o&list=RDKJ-5-By9e4o

and this one as well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiIcfH0_Z3g

Ok, i just picked one sura now, number 45 Al-Jathiya. It starts with (free translation):

The sending of the book was done by the almighty Allah, the one that has all powers and knows everything.

In the heavens and on earth there are signs for the believers

And in the creation of yours and everything that moves there are signs for a people that is convinced.

And in the change of day and night and the power that he sends from heaven to bring life to earthand the changes of winds are signs for a people that thinks

these are the verses of Allah that we present to you Mohamed. Wich other message other then Allah would they believe?

Woe, every lying sinner

He hears the verses of Allah and still in his pride he keeps on not believing, like he is not hearing it. So tell him he will be punished severly.

And if he knows some of our verses, then he uses this to make fun about it. They are the ones that will get a humiliating punishment.

Before them there is hell, and they will be punished

This is a sign. And the ones that do not believe in the signs of their lord, there will be a painfull punishment.

YOU SEE! I just pick ONE sura and after 6 ayahs it starts to threat non believers. The Quran is full of the greatness of Allah and threats for non believers.

I do NOT like it!!!

It seems the Abrahamic God is a sadist, a narcist, resentful, cruel, jealous, and his whole creation seems a sort of weird experiment. Creating humans with all their defaults and natural behaviour and then forbidding and punishing them for being themselves and not following some very intolerant people that try to force their believe on others??

Why would i read that again??

matt, you’re free to not like it, but please don’t talk about something you don’t understand. The punishment which it talks about is not of this world but in the afterlife, so you shouldn’t be worried. Nobody’s going to punish you because you were such a naughty boy!

I’m a bit confused though, where does it say do the things ISIS does? Because it clearly talks about the afterlife, evident in the last verse.

With the love you have for Abrahamic religions, I’m sure you’d enjoy reading the Old Testament immensely!

I send you a better translation. In fact 5 translations together: http://www.parsquran.com/data/showall.php?sura=45&ayat=1&user=eng&lang=eng

I repeat again: You should read it a thousand times until you understand it IF you are going to talk about it, as any sane human being would do in regard to anything they want to talk about.

Garga, I know it refers to the afterlife! it doesn’t make sense and it creates barbaric behaviour. I don’t need better translations. The book is full of fearing god, the greatness of god, the all knowing, the this the that…well it doesn’t scare or impress me, i think its pathetic!

If one reads it a thousand times, it is not about understanding, it is called BRAINWASHING

REACTION ON THE VIOLENCE IN THE NAME OF ISLAM OVER THE CENTURIES UNTILL THIS VERY DAY????? NO, THEY WERE OR ARE NO MUSLIMS

And i am not a naughty boy. I was a humanist most of my life and now i am VEGAN, because i at a certain point understood that the meat and dairy industry is the greatest crime of humanity EVER! I don’t need other religions, i invent my own religion

Don’t. Who asked you? I said feel free to not like it. The God I know in the Qur’an I know says there’s no forcing in religion. You have yours and I have mine. I only said don’t talk about something you don’t understand.

Yes, you’ll be punished in the afterlife, because god sent you a Garga and you didn’t listen! No sadism here, you’ve been warned by the mostest wisest of messenger birds… You ARE a bad, bad boy…

There are other smart birds: https://youtu.be/p0E1Wny5kCk

The only thing i do not understand is that people with the knowledge of today, still believe in god

That’s not yours to understand. You keep your beliefs and leave others alone.

you can’t be serious here: you should read it a thousand times until you understand it IF you are going to talk about it, as any sane human being would do in regard to anything they want to talk about. Are you saying that all your comments and opinions here on southfront are based upon things you red a thousand times????

The keyword here is “understand” not “a thousand times”.

You talk in riddles, why you used “a thousand times” then? And still: NO REACTION ON THE VIOLENT SPREADING OF ISLAM!! why not??

No. I clearly wrote “until you understand”. I answered that part and received a mixture of SHOUTING and insults in return, thank you very much.

Insults??

check out this docu on raqqa, its better when you have adblock plus

http://yify.bz/watch-city-of-ghosts-2017-online-free-yify/

I still don’t understand the upvoting, how can you upvote? i clearly did it bymistake and don’t know how, can’t find how to do it or undo it.

Is it the little arrows?

3 Corporations Run The World…

The Trinity of the Global Empire:

Why is Washington D.C. not a State and legally a separate city-state entity apart from the United States of America?

Why is the one square mile of the City of London, which has all the banks, with its own Mayor, a separate city-sate entity from all other England?

Why does the Vatican have its own country code, where the entire city-state entity is guarded by Swiss Guards and shares no laws with Italy? Where Switzerland has never been involved in wars, where ‘banksters’ go for secret accounts to hide their wealth?

In England, the Templars established their headquarters at a London temple, which still exists today and is called Temple Bar. This is located in the City of London, between Fleet Street and Victoria Embankment. The aforementioned “Crown,” to be exact, is the Knights Templar church, also known as the Crown Temple.

It is the Crown Temple that controls the legal/court system of the U.S., Canada and many other countries. All bar associations are directly linked to the International Bar Association and the Inns of Court at Crown Temple in the City of London

Anytime you hear somebody refer to the Bar Association, they are talking about a British/Masonic system that has nothing to do with a country’s sovereignty or the constitutional rights of its people. This is why, when you go to court in the U.S., you see the U.S. flag with a gold fringe, denoting international rule.

The government of the United States, Canada and Britain are all subsidiaries of the crown, as is the Federal Reserve in the U.S.. The ruling Monarch in England is also subordinate to the Crown. The global financial and legal system is controlled from the City of London by the Crown.

The square mile making up the center of Greater London is the global seat of power, at least at the visible level.

Washington DC was established as a city-state in 1871 with the passage of the Act of 1871, which officially established the United States as a corporation under the rule of Washington, which itself is subservient to the City of London.

Corporations are run by presidents, which is why we call the person perceived to hold the highest seat of power in the land “the president.”

The fact is the president is nothing more than a figurehead for the central bankers and transnational corporations (both of which themselves are controlled by High Ecclesiastic Freemasonry) that really control this country and ultimately call the shots.

Washington DC operates under a system of Roman Law and outside of the limitations established by the U.S. Constitution.

Therefore, it should not be a surprise that the name Capitol Hill derives from Capitoline Hill, which was the seat of government for the Roman Empire. If you look at the wall behind the podium in the House of Representatives, you will notice that on either side of the U.S. flag is the depiction of bundles of sticks tied together with an axe.

The fact is the president is nothing more than a figurehead for the central bankers and transnational corporations (both of which themselves are controlled by High Ecclesiastic Freemasonry) that really control this country and ultimately call the shots.

Washington DC operates under a system of Roman Law and outside of the limitations established by the U.S. Constitution.

Therefore, it should not be a surprise that the name Capitol Hill derives from Capitoline Hill, which was the seat of government for the Roman Empire. If you look at the wall behind the podium in the House of Representatives, you will notice that on either side of the U.S. flag is the depiction of bundles of sticks tied together with an axe.

These are called fasci, hence the root word of fascism. This was the symbol of fascism in the Roman Empire, as it was under the Nazis and still is today. It is not a coincidence that these symbols are featured on the floor of Congress.

Most U.S. citizens believe the United States is a country and the president is its leader, but the U.S. is not a country, it is a corporation, and the president is not our leader, he is the president of the corporation of the U.S.

The president, along his elected officials work for the corporation, not for the American People.

So, who owns the giant U.S. corporation?

Like Canada and Australia, whose leaders are prime ministers of the queen, and whose land is called crowned land, the U.S. is just another crowned colony. Crowned colonies are controlled by the empire of the three city states.

Thus, the U.S. is controlled by the three city states. “There exists a shadowy government with its own Air Force, its own Navy, its own fundraising mechanism, and the ability to pursue its own ideas of national interest, free from all checks and balances, and free from the law itself.” Daniel K. Inouye U.S. Senator from Hawaii, testimony at the Iran Contra Hearings, 1986 These 3 City-States belong to no Nation and pay no taxes.

They have their own separate laws, own police, mayors, post offices. Their own separate flags and their own separate identities… http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_globalelite177.htm

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Who was the ruler of Judea, over 2000 years ago? Was it King Herod and was he not part of the Roman Empire?

Have you heard of the Treaty of 1213?

Treaty of 1213… THE SECRET TREATY OF VERONA 1213 On October 3rd 1213, King John, as ‘King of England Corporation Sole’ claimed autonomy over all the sovereign rights of England and assignedthem to the Pope, who, as Vicar of Christ, claimed dominion over the wholeworld. In return, the Pope granted executiveship to the English Crown over all these dominions. In other words, the Crown is the chief executive andthe Vatican is the owner, although, of course, the true owner is whoever controls the Vatican…

Is ruling in the genes? All presidents bar one are directly descended from a medieval English king 12-year-old girl created family tree linking 42 of 43 U.S. presidents to King John of England, who signed Magna Carta in 1215 Only eighth president, Martin Van Buren, was not related to John

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2183858/All-presidents-bar-directly-descended-medieval-English-king.html#ixzz4ycpPmFQh

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Vatican: Owner of World’s Biggest Banks and Top Global Companies Exposed https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=485&v=urQtBCJBitA

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3 Corporations Run The World… http://www.sinhalanet.net/three-corporations-run-the-world-city-of-london-washington-dc-and-vatican-city

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I have seen the docu, i don’t believe most of it.

I will not anser your questions it will lead to an endless discussion that does not make any sense. Good luck with your new religion