A Turkish Leopard battle tank, a buldozer and casualties by the Turkish Armed Forces and their proxies. Click to see the full-size image
ISIS terrorists have seized two Leopard 2A4 main battle tanks and a bulldozer from Turkish forces near the Syrian city of al-Bab, the ISIS-linked news agency ‘Amaq’ said in a statement on December 22.
The statement added that pro-Turkey militants and the Turkish Armed Forces lost over 70 fighters in the recent clashes and sucide bomb attacks.
A statement by Amaq:
Click to see the full-size image
On December 22, the third ISIS suicide bomber targeted Turkish forces in the area and them ISIS units attacked them. As result of this, pro-Turkey fighters fled from western al-Bab to Azraq, according to Amaq.
Click to see the full-size map
The Turkish army confirmed that 16 its soldiers were killed near al-Bab.
The Turkish military also claimed that it had destroyed 90 ISIS targets in al-Bab killing 67 terrorists, but this cannot be confirmed by photo or video proofs.
The Leopard 2A4 is the most widespread version of the Leopard 2 family. In 2005 Turkey ordered 298 Leopard 2 tanks from German army stocks. Leopard 2A4 battle tanks in Syria are operated by Turkish military personnel and have not been delivered to pro-Turkey militants.
Two blood soaked bags and no visible heads on any bodies….
those aren’t bodies, it’s just an array of personal protection and load bearing equipment strewn around.
This must be a joke .
I can live with the discomfort of the Turkish armed forces, although I do feel sorry for the poor conscripts sent out to die there by the Great Sultan of Ankara. Their head choppers on the other hand, not so much.
I was just curious if any of you military buffs could give me a quick rundown of the performance of the Leopard vs. American and Russian tanks? Do the Germans still make a good tank? Is this the modern equivalent of the King Tiger or is it bottom tier compared to American or Russian models?
Probably, this is the most detailed article in SF now: https://southfront.org/u-s-army-armored-vehicle-developments-21st-century-military-analysis/ If you want to know about the Leopard/Armata issue, just scroll down to “Foreign Armored Developments”
Thanks SF. Much appreciated.
Muchis written about it. Leopards are just below Abrams and cheeper to have.
All the talk here about them compared to others are almost irrelevant unless the fight each other. Tanks make too many feeling safe just having some.
Åalmyra seems to be a good standard example in tanks and other armed vehchles has to be protected to keep the high value paying a lot for them.
Reas about it. Much is written, fine pictures, but remember how many Grads, Tows, Stingers, RPG`s – whatever You can get for one.
Im for replacing most of them with artillery for urban warfare and 120-150 mm outside.
Thanks for the reply Jens.
There is a pretty large difference between the different models of Leopard 2s, much like there is substantial difference between all the various M1 models or T-72/80/90 models. In general, (and despite what fanboys of American gear will say), the successive models of Leopard 2 have generally been a bit better than the comparable M1 model of the time, and at a cheaper price. The Germans figured out a steel/ceramic matrix for armour that offers equivalent protection at a much cheaper price than the British and American layered armour concepts, and that has improved over time. However, an A4, which is late 80s tech, is pretty outclassed in frontal turret armour vs. 21st century M1s by some 300mm RHAe. (Though A6s are more than competitive, with better HEAT protection than their US equivalents, thanks to their unique armour matrix.) When it came out, though, it was equal to the latest contemporary HA models of M1A1.
Unlike Americans, who have to outsource to Japan and South Korea for a lot of their FCS electronic components, the Germans build their own. If you know anything about computer processor manufacture, you’ll know that Germans make first-class electronics, comparable to the best stuff from Japan. Likewise, their software is top of the line. Ironically, because of the cumbersome acquisition process and the various differences of opinion between Japan and the USA, the USA is usually not using the latest Japanese tech in the electronics. For example right now Japanese warships feature a much more advanced version of AEGIS than the USN. Since the Germans don’t have to deal with that, they can keep their FCS and sensors more updated than the US, which mirrors the differences in sighting optics quality back in WWII, interestingly. But again, this is a late 80s model, so while it was cutting edge then, it is pretty old now.
The German developed an upgrade package for Turkish Leopards, but unlike practically every other customer of the tank, the Turkish didn’t buy it, so these are pretty much the same as what was coming off the assembly line in 1992.
Thanks, Joseph. I can only imagine where the Germans would be now and how advanced their equipment and weaponry would be if they hadn’t been an occupied country that was allowed to have a full throated Heer.
No kidding. Even for just 1945, the plan was to switch over to Sturmgewehrs as the standard issue rifle that year (which, thanks to their imaginative underground factory system, industry was capable of accomplishing), so the infantry squad of 9 would have consisted of 2 MG.42, 1 Gewehr.43 w/x4 scope for the sniper, and 6 Strumgewehr, plus a liberal provision of rifle grendes and Panzerfausts.
The G.11 caseless rifle actually dates to a WWII-era prototype. They had a rifle firing a caseless 7.92×33 Kurz. They were just waiting on a stable enough propellent, the same issue Dynamit-Nobel had to fight with then H&K fielded their rifle.
Interesting side story in the G.11: you won’t find any direct corroboration, but the G.11 was actually abandoned by the Bundeswehr because H&K and the German government had become to PC for realistic warfare, not because of the reunification and budget issues. As the G.11’s bullet was developed, it’s shape and length were modified several times to improve aerodynamics. However, the great controversy over the wound cavity properties of the thin-jacketed 5.56 was going on at this time, and H&K, to avoid any accusations of developing a ‘too-lethal’ bullet, deliberately lengthened the bullet lust a little more, because once the length of a projectile gets to be around 5 calibres, the bullet won’t tumble in a human body. It’s length stabilises it’s gravity too much, and prevents yaw in anything as thick as flesh and blood.
What H&K hadn’t bothered to notice was that the German Army’s 7.62 rounds had an even thinner jacket than American 5.56, (likewise those of the Swedes who were throwing such a fit about their pig videos), and fragmented spectacularly inside humans within 200m, creating fearsome wound cavities that made a 5.56 M193 look like the plinking round it kind of is. This was generally advertised as an economics feature left over from WWII: less material used, so easier and cheaper for mass production in wartime. But the German Army knew full well how wound ballistics worked, and had developed an appreciation, from fighting Russians, of rounds that could rapidly incapacitate. Too many had been killed or wounded in house-to-house fighting when, storming a room, their pistol cailbre submachineguns had been inadequate to stop some Russian defender from making a last deadly counterattack of their own.
So, along comes H&K, all smiles, and tells the Bundeswehr, “Not to worry! Nobody will be able to accuse you of being inhumane like the Americans, because we have made a bullet that won’t even tumble, much less fragment!” In other words, from a wound cavity perspective, they had made a 4.92mm pistol bullet. Up until this development, the German Army had been extremely interested in the G.11. Now (and you can check the development timelines and see for yourself), the Heer got cold feet very fast. They began to postpone the introctrination of the rifle again and again, even though all the real issues with the propellant were now solved, and even when H&K came up with a 300 round SAW concept. Finally, reunification was upon them and they proclaimed: “Oh, smaller army, and no money! Such a shame! And we so wanted your rifle! Oh well!”
But you see, they had been dragging their feet, quite out of the blue, since before any budget or downsizing issues appeared. That just proved to eb their out. They didn’t dare tell H&K: “Well, actually we want a bullet that tumbles and fragments, so as to stop the enemy from fighting and protect our troops.” That would have been so brutal and Wehrmacht-like. If word had gotten into the press, the outcry from all the far Leftists, who were already talking about abolishing the Bundeswehr, would have probably made the government force this useless bullet on them. The British had already been forced to adopt a heavy-jacketed 5.56 that wouldn’t fragment and tried not to tumble. This was worse. So they gave up the G.11, and designed their own more efficient version of the SS109 that does indeed tumble and fragment.
Before WWII ended, the Germans had also begun to experiment with a prototype rifle that used electromagnetic propulsion. They had a much more advanced understanding of electromagnetism than mainstream physics does today. See the Electric Universe and The Electric Sky for an discussion of how science has completely ignored the empirical evidence Horten 229.)of electromagnetic dominance, misunderstood gravity, accepted the Special relativity hypothesis that Einstein himself was doubtful about, and instead chased after chimerical nonsense like Dark Matter and Dark Energy. The Germans were, like so many plasma physicists and electrical engineers, followers of this much more cohesive, Occam’s razor-friendly science paradigm. (Let me add that when you put this together with a certain fellow’s flying disk experiments in the UK, banned by the MoD under some cryptic defence law, the tales of German electromagnetically propelled flying saucers become quite plausible.)
They even had a space-shuttle concept, on top of their hypersonic aerospace glide vehicle. (Hmmn, now where did the X-37 come from? We already know the B-2 was copied from the Horten 229, right down to the use of radar absorbing materials). Huge essentially modern transport
submarines to give them an ability to move troops and supplies without the vulnerability of surface ships. Even radio-controlled, optically-guided cruise missiles. (And how long did it take the USA to catch up with that, even with captured equipment and notes to reverse engineer with?) Satellite plans. Space station plans. The original unmanned vehicles. I think you’d be looking at a whole different paradigm of military forces, not to mention an active space exploration and colonisation program.
It was really German scientists that put a man on the Moon. Gotta give them credit. Too bad the Judeo/Anglo/American Axis neutered Germany and the anti Comintern Pac natons. Also, to get a little spooky, look at Die Glocke. Like you say, they were experimenting with some cutting edge, anti gravity technology and maybe more. I don’t want to get into tinfoil territory, but suffice it to say Germany was leaps and bounds above the rest of the world.
The ground conditions look right for this time of year. Looks like ISUS armor has been upgraded with leopard 2A4! Much nicer than the old beat up T55’s they drive around. More leg room and equiped with heater and AC. Looks like the Turks where caught taking a nap. Maybe they are just tired of Mr. Erdogan and life in the field? And want to return to heated barracks.
Don’t knock those ex-Bulgarian Army T55s.
I doubt they know how to operate them. Remindes me of Houthis capturing Abrams. They tooks some videos, then blew it up.
Those tanks are hit and destroyed by TuAF.
Hopefully destroyed with ISUS around them, surprised that they did not drive them away for more photos and propaganda. The Leopard is new to them, and more complicated than T55, They did not take proper classes on operation like the Turkish tank crews did. Al Bab is going to be a tough fight!
All tanks are simple enough to drive, but modern MBTs are tough to command. If they think they can use state-of-the-art MBTs because they can drive T-55s on road, they’re in for a surprise. IF they were able to get these home, they’re going to be the world’s worst L2A4 tankers ever.
Turk population gonna luv seeing these images! It’s power propoganda which will have Erdogan dancing to control. Most of Turk media is controled, Erdogan could block Twitter and other again. .. Except. ..the Internet side in Turkey will get around that and keep up… Hey…they may even pile into Southfront : )
This is what having a Muslim Brotherhood leader gets you Turkey, It however does not have to continue. Prison break out …..For all those Army Generals and pilots Erdogan tossed in after The Coup
If I were the Russian high command in Syria I would try to get my hands on those Leopards… If not by force then by buying them from ISIS… Knowledge of those Leopards performance could come in handy in the future, in Europe…
Leo 2A4s are already pretty much outdated, there’s nothing new in them that would justify the russians getting some. Also, it’s not the russians who buy from ISIS, normally it’s the turks who do that. Maybe they can buy the tanks back.
Why would they need to buy a tank that’s been exported to virtually every country that wants it?
Did they get the ammunition that goes with the tanks and the keys?? is the question that should be asked……
one more believing promtive and over estimated tank warfare more than Allah.
Once again we see writers here telling us, its because those tanks are old. No its not.
When even low class armed ISIS`s can stop them, they are wrong to the job – Or its wrong to expect no loses af tanks, when they are in criticale areas.
Learn to spell or do not drink and post for your lack of command of the English language leaves your comments unintelligable and nonsensical.
Are You running for President for United Retardo Autistics.
This is about tanks, infantery and leadership – Not a spelling contest.
Thought You had Your own site. Could be jetlag from the tractor as well or being associated to URA. https://www.ura.gov.sg/uol/
Turks eliminated some people too and made it easyer to resettle Al Bab in the Aleppo way.
Did not I said the Turkey will need to give at least 2000 dead malia soldiers before they take over Albab?? So far the total number of Turkish back Malita that have died is already nearly 600. Around 70 recently but the over all so far are around 600. If they will take over albab it will not be less than 2000 dead Turkish malita and at least 4000 injured. By that time they will be took broke to go further even one inch. This war is no picknick. So many terrorists died in this war that thousands refused to go to the front and left the battle field. The total number of Iraqi and syrian soldiers killed so far are tens of thousands of them. This is no joke war so far more than 70,000 soldiers plus terrorist both in Iran and Syria have died. This does not inlcude the civilians. It is no joke war… Anyone going there they will need to be prepared for certian death or injury.
These tanks had been marked by the UAVs and hit by TuAF F16s shortly after.