ILLUSTRATIVE
Israel worked behind the scenes lobbying the United States to drop Turkey from the F-35 program, Channel 12 reported on August 1. According to the report, this was carried out in the framework of th Israeli efforts to preserve its military qualitative edge in the region.
The US excluded Turkey from the program claiming that the S-400 missile defense batteries would aid Russian intelligence. Channel 12 reported that Israeli officials were similarly concerned that details of the F-35’s advanced capabilities would leak to neighboring countries.
Turkey had oredered more than 100 of the F-35s for some $1.4 billion and had been a major contributor to the program itself. Nonetheless, now, the delivery of the F-35 is under a big question.
Meanwhile, Israel agreed to purchase at least 50 F-35 fighter jets from the US defense contractor Lockheed Martin. So far, 16 aircraft have been delivered. The rest of the warplanes is slated to arrive batches of twos and threes until 2024.
Israel is a great mafia in the world. Israel secretely steal and share US, UK, French and Russian technologies for making billions. These governments should not know.
If you think about it, they kinda did them a favor by not letting them have that piece of shit plane lmao
If the plane was that bad, Israel wouldn’t want it
But they have it cuz they’re brainless cowards at military decision and action. Explains why they can’t set not even a single foot in little Lebanon, or even littler Gaza lol!
And you, you’re just a brainwashed scumbag cog whose job is to clean the filthy jew bog – fucking hasbara janitor lol!
Ahh the jews are stupid, that’s why they control all Russian resources. And why should they occupy Lebanon, it’s well known that is full of traps. But That’s pretty much all about it. On the other hand Russia is the most resourceful country in the world and jews rule all over it
Jews rule over the west completely, and only somewhat over Russia. But this doesn’t make the jews smarter than hezbollah, cuz they fucking EVIDENTLY ain’t! Now put THAT in yer pipe and puff you poof!
It’s the other way around. They rule over Russia completely and over the west in most parts. If you take a look at top Russian billionaires, you’ll see the Jews makes a larger proportion than top American Billionaires. Add to this that America has a strong middle class which is also a power while Russia’s middle class are considered those who afford eating McDonalds.
Oh I know your hasbara brief is to trash on Russia 24/7, which is why your jewy nose damn well knows that the FACTS support my estimations and NOT your stupid misinformation campaign.
Cowardice in wartime is usually an accusation leveled by one side when the other side refuses to conveniently line themselves up to get shot. Chivalry has no place in warfare, the only thing that counts is getting the most of the other side killed at the cost of the least of your side. That and making the other side conceit defeat.
That being said I do detest Israeli behavior in regards to the Palestinians, absolutely despicable.
He comes here to have his bacon occupied by superior goy retorts. Typical jewish masochistic perversion.
He is quite sober. You are illiterate ignorant.
They has put a foot on Your behind ?
No, but you have put foot in mouth.
So Your friends set feet in Israel and wherever they want at the Westbank and Golan.
News to me…
How else do you think my “friends” got their intel that helped defeat and humiliate the idf back in 2006? :-D
They got a special version.
Yes, it renders bacon kosher, so he can occupy it with his ass.
It doesn’t fly at all cause it gives nausea. Its special capability is cutting and refrigerating foreskins.
Cause Bibi wants to be special
I reckon that the F-35 is a classic case that if you throw enough money at a problem that eventually you will end up with a solution. And they threw a lot of money at the F-35. Just like the F-4 Phantom was a classic case that if you use two of the biggest engines even a brick will fly. So in that sense the F-35 probably does work.
And of course the Israeli’s want it. Like most NATO airforces they’ve become addicted to American gear and unlike NATO airforces they probably don’t even have to pay for most of it themselves. Which makes them kinda like welfare bums. Why work when you can get a handout for free? Well actually as a former welfare bum I can give you lots of reasons why I would rather work, but I also met the other kind of bums so I understand that sentiment too.
“Work is a relative”. I am sure those gifts also are used as testing in real life with real destruction.
Methinks the power of the Pro-Israel lobby in the US is such that even if Israel were to place each and every F-35 in public parks as pieces of art they would still get them for free. If that is what Israel wants, then that is what Israel will get. Got to secure those AIPAC campaign contributions for one’s re-election.
Americans can always be trusted to do the right thing, once all other possibilities have been exhausted.” said Churchill once. When I think of this plane as a piece, I see it’s somewhat mediocre since I thought at first it will be better than F-22 but I also think of it as an export plane that looks like it’s going to be the next success after F-16 and F-86. By now it has almost 1k orders from foreign countries, I’m curious in the next years how many SU-57 dubbed as “F-35 killer” will be purchased by foreign countries. Mig-21 was also a very successful export plane btw.
“I’m curious in the next years how many SU-57 dubbed as “F-35 killer” will be purchased by foreign countries.”
Dubbed by whom? I’ve read pundits from the west talking out their ass say shit like this but nothing from Russia.
You have very simplistic ideas about how military forces use weapons … especially in defence. You seem to think that if the USA builds an F-35 then the Russians counter that with a superior su-57. They are both platforms for missiles with the ability to strike deep in enemy territory.
If they are both busy striking deep into enemy territory how does the SU-57 “kill” F-35’s? They’re missions take them thousands of mile in the opposite direction of each other. Wouldn’t it make more sense if interceptor aircraft and SAM’s dealt with the F-35 while the SU-57 is used to take out tankers, airfields and AWACS deep behind enemy lines?
If the F-35 and SU-57 compete for sales in other countries it’s as multi-role strike aircraft not whether one can shoot down the other and they will be evaluated on life cycle cost and the capability to perform the role they were designed for not head to head battle
Russia doesn’t have anything like the F-35 …. it simply doesn’t fit in their doctrine to have an aircraft like this. If the Russians want to penetrate air space and strike a target they would use a missile. Way cheaper, no pilot and little maintenance.
That’s not the way it works. The F-35 works in a system of weapons as does the SU-57. You defend against the system not the individual weapons. When the shooting starts between Russia and the USA we don’t know what tactics or weapons the Russians will use to neutralize the F-35.
Russian air superiority aircraft will likely go after AWAC’s and Tankers with long range BVR missiles and not ever see and F-35 in combat. There are missiles, interceptors and EW that would likely take on the
“Dubbed by whom?” by Russia Toady and Sputnik News in 2015-2016 before revealing they gave up the idea of first Russian stealth aircraft
Do you consider RT and Sputnik credible sources for military expertise? I sure as fuck don’t. They’re media publishing sensationalist bullshit fighting for ratings and selling ads just like Newsweek and Fox news. Journalists aren’t subject matter experts, they’re writers. They go to “experts” for for a quote then spin it in a sensational way that sells papers.
I have read all of your comment…” When the shooting starts between Russia and the USA we don’t know what tactics or weapons the Russians will use to neutralize the F-35.” I was talking about export that mean they could meet each other in Kashmir for example but like every Russia-enamorate you know that your beloved army relays on nukes alone…so always move the discussion into the direction of WW III to achieve equality with the US .
“you know that your beloved army relays on nukes alone”
First If that’s the case then how is it we are even discussing Russian weapons other than the nuclear ones?
Second. Neither the USA or Russia signed the “no first use” policy agreement. The Russians policy is to use nuclear weapons if attacked with nukes or if the state is under existential threat.
The USA OTOH simply reserves the right to use nuclear weapons “in case of a conflict” whatever the fuck that means https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_first_use
So tell me again how it’s the Russians that are relying on nuclear weapons but the USA isn’t?
Third the only reason that the USA gets away with crap like “freedom of navigation” cruises and sending nuclear armed surface ships to the shores of other nation is because they have nuclear weapons …. particularly SLBM’s. Take the risk of nuclear war out of the equation and China could easily sink a US naval vessel and keep carriers well away from causing any harm to China. The USA would be left with long range bombers and missiles in defended air space as the only weapon that could reach China and China would be in a similar position to strike US bases in the region.
“First If that’s the case then how is it we are even discussing Russian weapons other than the nuclear ones?”
You are discussing Russian weapons not me.
“…or if the state is under existential threat.”
Putin thinks the state is under existential threat if 100 people protest against him.
“USA gets away with crap like “freedom of navigation” cruises and sending nuclear armed surface ships to the shores of other nation”
First how is the middle of the sea China’s shore just because they built some islets there? Not even Russia recognize that move, they team with Vietnam for oil/gas prospection in waters that China claim its “shore”. And no, US wouldn’t nuke China if a US ship is sunk, they would sink 100 Chinese ships instead or more and of course erase that “isles” China built in the middle of International Waters.
“Putin thinks the state is under existential threat if 100 people protest against him.”
So what’s your point with these stupid one liners? You practicing your stand up routine? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oShTJ90fC34
“And no, US wouldn’t nuke China if a US ship is sunk, they would sink 100 Chinese ships instead or more and of course erase that “isles” China built in the middle of International Waters.”
Stick to the subject at hand. The USA “reserves the right to use nuclear weapons first in the case of conflict” THAT is the USA’s stated policy on the USA of nuclear weapons. Unlike Russia or any other nation on earth that require either a nuclear attack or an existential threat to the nation by force the USA is willing to go nuclear simply over a ‘conflict’
USA is willing to go nuclear simply over a ‘conflict’.
Russia is willing to go nuclear if the state ‘is under existential threat’.
It’s the same shit, only USA uses a blunt wording.
An export success because its good? Or an export success because the US basically forced this aircraft on its allies? Or subverted local elites and militaries to buy it?
In the Netherlands the Dutch air force wanted the F-35 because it utterly refuses to even look at any alternatives and rigges the requirements for a replacement in such a way that only the F-35 will do. Most of the political parties were against it, except for 2 of the center right parties, who during successive coalition government forced their coalition partners to either accept this program, or by pulling Patton’s stone soup trick.
1st step: We’re not committing to buy this aircraft yet. But we will participate in its development program. Cause its good for Dutch industry and jobs. Don’t worry, we can still quit this program.
2nd step: We’re not committing to buy this aircraft yet. But in order make sure our industry can participate in this program and not lose Dutch jobs we have to order a single development aircraft. Don’t worry, we can still quit this program.
3rd step: We’re not committing to buy this aircraft yet. But in order make sure our industry can participate in this program and not lose Dutch jobs we have to order a second development aircraft and spent half a billion more. Don’t worry, we can still quit this program.
4th step: We have to order the F-35, otherwise Dutch industry will miss out and lose jobs.
And that is how you stealth commit to a military procurement program against the wishes of most political parties and most of the electorate, Patton’s recipe for stone soup.
“An export success because its good? Or an export success because the US basically forced this aircraft on its allies? Or subverted local elites and militaries to buy it?”
There are tens of models USA sold to foreign countries and most of all not NATO members, I gave you example of the most successful export planes only. And also I gave you an example of the most successful Russian export plane.
And I gave you an example of how the US cajoles, bribes and forces its allies and others to buy American gear. They even target nations with sanctions now for buying Russian gear.
And yes, the Russians have not had much success selling aircraft after the USSR collapsed. Which I reckon played no small part in why many former Soviet customers started to look elsewhere for new gear. When your supplier becomes reliable due to collapse, it becomes prudent to look elsewhere for military hardware. After all, it’s supposed to last at least a couple of decades, that means you need a reliable supply of spare parts and customer support. And also didn’t help that the Russian military itself couldn’t afford to buy anything any more. When you know that the country that produces an aircraft will itself buy a couple of thousand aircraft you know that the factory will be in business for a long time and with that many airframes there will be a lot of spare parts. It used to be that the Red Air Force would buy thousands of new aircraft, now the Russians only buy a couple dozen. And it may be the best aircraft in the world, but as Stalin used to say, quantity is a quality of its own. In that sense the F-35 is not the best aircraft in the world, and hideously expensive to buy, but since the US will buy at least a thousand or two, it’s going to be around for a while. And so will its customer support.
Okay, I never said I’m a big fan of this plane. But if there was only the lobby that sells a plane, all planes would sell in the approximately same proportion. I admit, that throwing lots of orders from home country is pushing the plane to be sold outside.
Unlike F-22, F-35 more than everything was made for being sold, it has a bit of everything an emerging country or Arab dictator or Bibi wants to brag about: a bit of stealth, a bit of electronic warfare, vertical landing…
Let’s see how many fall from the sky like the Russian flying coffins. Half of the Russian aircraft lost in Syria had nothing to do with the enemy.
The F-35 will probably remain controversial long into the future, if only in the way of how its development and political shenanigans went. And I reckon the decision process was different in the case of every participant country. And vertical landing of course is only a feature on the F-35B, the version of the USMC and those of countries with wannabee aircraft carriers.
As for Russian flying coffins, considering their sortie rates are higher then those of the US and NATO, anywhere between 1 to 3 sorties per aircraft per day I’d say their accident rates are incredibly low. Now I don’t know if this has been achieved by very good maintenance and/or support, or by cannibalizing the existing fleet back in Russia, as is the case in NATO countries.
Where can I find the sorties difference info? Searched on google, couldn’t find anything.
The US pays Israel $3.1 billion / yr in military aid plus $8 billion in loan guarantees / yr. The initial 20 F-35’s cost $2.75B and the Israeli’s get manufacturing kickbacks so the F-35 is essentially a gift to Israel from the US taxpayer. They get one hell of a lot more free stuff from you than that and that’s just one year and they get this money year in year out.
What country is going to turn down free fighter jets?
maybe they dont know its that bad ;)
They are the only ones, who are allowed to feed the plane their own software and install tech at their own discretion. They are exempt from the forced software updates and remote killswitch. The C version airframe is not too bad, so they have something to work with. Besides, they get the planes for a bargain in exchange for bug fixes and a good reputation in combat and other political backdoor dealings. Israel never admits losing air planes to enemy fire. So the image of the product is not in danger.
I read only half of f-35s are combat capable lmao
shall i talk about the merkava? lmao
I am sure those planes are very good, but they are too expensive.
Agree. Also Bin Salman has too much money to spend :)
The isreali regime does not have an edge in the region. What it has is a blunt instrument, much like a hammer, that sees everything as a nail. It has lost its credibility throughout the world. The regime has repeatedly cheated everyone to further their ME domination dreams. Recently, that dream hasn’t gone according to plan and Syrians and Palestinians are looking to reclaim their land more than ever.
With the S-400, me thinks the next nato assassination attempt of Erdogan won’t go according to plan either.
I like Israel people but their government Is so satanic and the ones who work for them in military, I believe in God but I dont believe in religion, that religion has been created by governments / empires to control population through brain washing.
Israel have fkd America, Russia and NATO because they take commands from Israel and in return Israel get security, weapons and cache from all these states.
The best missile defense system in the world rather than the worst and most expensive fighter jet ever built.
Turks sending thank you notes and gift baskets to the Israelis.
of course – the squatters know full well that erdogan hates them and is waiting for the time to wipe the squatters’ occupation of palestine off the map. the squatters occupation is just a geopolitical experiment that failed and there is no reason to maintain the view the squatters favour, that it is a functioning statehood since it is not. when all rights to exist are forfeited and the experiment has turned into a criminal operation with murder, theft and deceit, it’s time to say enough is enough and wish Erdogan, together with Iran, Hezbollah, Iraq and the other allies, best of luck – the quicker the end of the squatters criminal enterprise comes about, the better. they won’t be missed by anyone and it is necessary to include the fifth columns around the world supporting the squatters in the eviction process. can’t go wrong.
F35 is a trap. It is so complicated that there is not even a slightest chance that it can be maintained without US support. So those purchasing it are tied to the US camp over its lifetime (which might be short, I know) with political support to the US foreign policy as part of the deal.
Thats a total like. Several countries in fx EU not even send spareåarts to Turkey and hasnt done that for a while.
I see no reasons for Israel should lobby anything about the F35s. None.