Lavrov: U.S. Is Working To Establish Quasi-State In Eastern Syria

no, the criteria decide. similarly as in socialistic countries there was never democracy. in syria is less democracy as was in the ussr. in democracy can not be one family clan usurper of the might.

These articles don’t support your contention:

– Turkey Warns Iraq Kurds It Can ‘Close the Valves’ on Oil Exports –

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-25/turkey-warns-iraq-kurds-it-can-close-the-valves-on-oil-exports

“Turkish President Erdoğan threatens to cut off Iraqi Kurdistan’s petroleum exports”

– Iraq, Turkey Threaten Kurdistan’s Oil Boom After Controversial Independence Vote –

https://www.wsj.com/articles/iraq-turkey-threaten-kurdistans-oil-boom-after-controversial-independence-vote-1506351245

These articles do and explain why, and you don’t have to subscribe to them either. That was nice of you to provide only links to paid for news. The articles you provided us with are only good at explaining the ONLY ONE bone of contention between the Kurds in Iraq and the Turks atm, every single other factor is more than OK between them, it’s brilliant. Most countries around the world would be happy to have only one major dispute with any of their partners. So you’re totally wrong, Iraqi Kurdistan is more or less totally dependent on Turkey now, and Turkey is becoming more and more attached to Iraqi Kurdistan too, nearly in love I’d say, apart from this one tiny little lovers tiff you point at as a reason they don’t really get along. Erdogan has made heaps of concessions to the Kurds in Turkey lately, and he’s been doing it at the request of the Iraqi Kurds who have some influence over him now, but they’re also working with the Turkish Kurds in a trilateral relationship that seems to be improving things for all parties concerned. If the Iraqi Kurds stop doing business with Turkey and Turkey stops protecting them with it’s military, the Iraqis will come straight in and destroy their semi autonomous region in a heartbeat, they Iraqi Kurds need the Turks just to survive right now, absolutely no one else will help them if the Turks aren’t there. Here’s some info that really helps understand the real relationship between them. http://www.pism.pl/publications/bulletin/no-89-1029 https://carnegieendowment.org/files/USIP_SR_Turkey_Iraq.pdf http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/mec/2018/04/22/turkish-enigma-versus-kurdish-dilemma/

The articles that you quote show that Turkey is against Kurdish independence. Just like the ones that I quote.

“Turkey’s adamant stance against the Kurdish bid for independence and the incorrect assumption on the part of the KRG (Kurdistan Regional Government) leadership, particularly President Masoud Barzani, about the modus operandi of its neighbour to the north.

Prior to the independence referendum the KRG leadership had anticipated Turkey’s negative position but thought Ankara would not act beyond issuing diplomatic statements, mainly to alleviate domestic political concerns in Turkey itself. This proved to be a huge miscalculation. Turkey, coordinating with Iran and having begun a rapprochement with the central government in Baghdad, effectively paved the road to the Kurdish debacle on 16 October when Kirkuk – with its oilfields and almost all of the “disputed territories” under the control of the KRG – was overrun by forces loyal to the central government in Baghdad and supported by Iran.”

Yes but the ones I linked show that apart from that one single ideological difference, they’re best buddies now. The Iraqis took back most their oilfields last year but the Kurds still control a good share, and so does Turkey by proxy. The key is that the Kurds control the area where the Iraq pipeline to Turkey is located, if they make trouble for the Iraqi government and disrupt the supply of Iraqi government produced oil to Turkey, the Iraqis lose revenue during the period. Now whether that means shutting down the operation temporarily or even blowing up the pipe altogether it still means the Kurds have the Iraqis over a barrel, and if you remember 3 years ago, the Turks have no problem killing Iraqis to protect the Kurds, there were many reports in the media about the Iraqi’s threatening to boot the US out of Iraq altogether if they didn’t help solve the Turkish/Kurdish/Iraqi problem that the US helped to create. As to why the Turks capitulated to Iranian demands and let the Iraqis take back most of their oilfields, the Iranians sell them very cheap crude oil, and with the US sanctions making it hard for the Turks to buy the oil anywhere else, they too were held over a barrel and had to capitulate, but this is as far as it’s got since oct last year, the Iraqi Kurd/Turkish alliance is still as strong as ever, and still making them both rich, maybe not as rich as they were before oct last year, but still rich enough.

You’re either very confused, or putting so much spin on your version trying to present something as being what it isn’t, that either way you look stupid. What is it about the Kurdish government can’t pay it’s bills that you don’t understand? Are you a Jew promoting the Kurds?

They can pay the bills easily, more than pay the bills even with oil prices low atm what they can’t do is keep a well equipped large army operating on the budget they have, from both the oil they plunder and tax revenue they get from the Iraqi government and their share of the governments budget allocation. That’s like saying I’m poor because I can’t afford to own a second house and a third car, that never gets too much sympathy, poor indeed, I’d like to know why you think they’re poor and can’t pay the bills, if they stopped paying for their army they’d have more than enough left over to spread it around to the common people too. The gloves are off chimp I’ve gotten sick of your foul LGBTQI language, you’ve called me stupid too many times. No more polite from me, You’re a MORON.

You’re talking out of both sides of your mouth, they’re rich swimming in oil money but they can’t pay their bills. So who is the moron moron? You’re a head case. That’s why you write such nonsense.

They are swimming in money, they just need someone to stop them overspending on things they don’t want and need, like a massive well equipped army, the country of Iraq already has one of those, the Kurds there don’t really need another one even if they do want one. Like I said, they’re trying to live beyond their means, not trying to scrape by because they’re poor, the financial worry they face is they can’t live like kings anymore, they’ll have to live like prices, but not like the poor people, they’re not anywhere near being in that situation, show me anywhere at all where they’re facing financial crisis’s in anything other than maintaining a large military, if you can’t I get to call you a MORON, please link or even copy and paste, but make a much better effort that your last poor attempt where you only linked the articles that confirmed the one thing we don’t disagree on, the articles I linked you confirm every single thing I said, and don’t link paid for articles, or was that on purpose because you hoped I wouldn’t read them, MORON.

Look it up. You’re wasting my time with your idiocy.

The Iraqi government isn’t happy with Erdogan, they’re very unhappy that Erdogan and the Iraqi Kurds have become best mates while they both get rich selling Iraqi oil. So as much as Erdogan hates the Syrian and Turkish kurds, he absolutely loves the Iraqi Kurds, I don’t think you can count on any Kurdish allegiances to overcome the financial benefit they’re now getting from cooperating with Turkey, but who really knows.

That was my first post, what have you been talking about, why don’t you look it up MORON, what I said is entirely correct and you have no idea what you’re talking about, it’s all out there for anyone to see, just google search Iraqi Kurd/Turkish relations. I suggest anyone that might be following our argument does this simple google search to find out which one of us two is the real MORON.

If the Kurds were getting rich selling Iraqi oil they’d be able to pay their government employees. Iraq could shut off the Kurd’s oil exports to Turkey anytime that the y want. Just like they closed the Kurd’s airspace, airports and border posts after the referendum. Your posts don’t make sense and they’re not supported by the evidence.

My previous post They can pay the bills easily, more than pay the bills even with oil prices low atm what they can’t do is keep a well equipped large army operating on the budget they have, from both the oil they plunder and tax revenue they get from the Iraqi government and their share of the governments budget allocation. That’s like saying I’m poor because I can’t afford to own a second house and a third car, that never gets too much sympathy, poor indeed, I’d like to know why you think they’re poor and can’t pay the bills, if they stopped paying for their army they’d have more than enough left over to spread it around to the common people too. The Iraq government aren’t as polite as me, they’re saying. No we aren’t giving you one more cent, you’re already getting more than your fair share as it is, stop spending all the illegal money you’re making out of our oil and pay your own bills, we’re not giving you more money to run the autonomous region if you’re spending all your cash you’re making on a separatist army, an army we don’t want you to have anyway, use that money you’re spending on your army to pay the bills instead, there’ll still be plenty left over if you do. No financial crisis at all for the Iraqi Kurds, maybe they don’t like the fact that the Iranian/Turkish/Iraqi deal left them millionaires instead of billionaires, but crying to the Iraqi government about more money falls on deaf ears when the Iraqis can see them spending all their own money on weapons and asking for more. THAT’S NOT A FINANCIAL CRISIS just prioritizing badly. The Iraqis make a lot of money selling oil to Turkey and they both need each other, the Turks need oil and the Iraqis need the revenue, but the Iraqis get a much worse deal because the Kurds are involved, and the Turks get a much better deal because the Kurds are involved, why would the Turks let the Iraqis kick them right out, I don’t think the Turks would like to see the Iraqis kick the Kurds out altogether, they’ll be paying a lot more for their Iraqi oil if that happens.

The Kurds can’t pay their bills and they couldn’t hold Kirkuk with the military that they have which keeps the Turks at bay and what limited autonomy that they currently have in place. Your ignoring these simple facts and going off on some talking out of both sides of you’re mouth nonsensical tangent makes you look like the idiot that you are.

I’m ignoring the facts do you say, you better check and find out who’s side the Turks are on, as I keep saying they’re best buddies with the Iraqi Kurds, not their enemies, before the deal to allow the Iraqis to get back most of their oilfields, the Turks were killing the Iraqis to defend the kurds you know. The turks get cheap illegal oil from the Iraqi Kurds, and they get to buy cheap Iraqi oil from the Iraqis, and apart from their military support, the Kurds pay for everything themselves out of their illegal oil sales to Turkey, their taxes on the transit line, and the money the Iraqi government gives them. I’m afraid I think you misunderstand the situation completely, just as you think I do, but since neither of us seem willing to concede to the other, I suggest we stop wasting each others time and agree to disagree, I think we both read a completely different story when we read the same article, it’s hard to agree when 2 people do that.

“Turks were killing the Iraqis to defend the kurds you know.”

This is news to me. And an internet search turns up nothing. What it shows is just the opposite, that the Turks and Kurds are killing each other and have been for a long time. Calling people who have a long history of killing each other best buddies shows what a liar and head case you are.

I read an article and come to a rational, fact based assessment. You try to twist it into saying the exact opposite of what the facts show. Your Orwellian 1984 spin is the stuff of psychopaths and loons.

This is an article from 2012 that explains how the relationship developed.

https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2012/12/22/a-tortuous-triangle

I did assert that some Iraqis had been killed by the Turks 3 or 4 years ago in defending the areas the Kurds occupy, but couldn’t find anything on the net to back my assertion, I’m pretty sure I’m right so perhaps I didn’t do an extensive enough search, I don’t have time now but I will tomorrow, if I can’t find anything to send you to confirm it, I’ll apologize for being wrong, but I’ll have a good search tomorrow and hope I’m right.

People killing each other aren’t best buddies. And governments that can’t pay their employees or defend their territory aren’t swimming in money.

Iraq is Turkey’s neighbor. Turkey is working with all of the the Iraqis, Iraqi Kurds are Iraqis, on conflict resolution and problem solving. The Iraqi central government is allowing regular Turkish military incursions into northern Iraq against the Kurds without interference. And has been for a long time.

These are all well recognized realities. Your attempts to twist them into some fantasy scenario are lies that I’ve exposed repeatedly.

The Turks don’t kill the Iraq KDP when they’re killing Kurds in Iraq, they’re killing PYD from Syria and PPK from Turkey that flee across the border, or even hide out there in northern Iraq and make quick incursions into Turkey. KDP is in charge of Kurdish Iraq and is moderate to say the least, they try to have good relations with everyone, even the Israelis. Before the independence vote they had good relations with the Iraqi government too, but since then have lost not just half the territory that held most of the oil [and some soldiers], but any favour they did have with the Iraqi government or the Iranians. Not all Kurds are equal but the KDP in Iraq is still everybody’s favorite, Turkey, Syria ,Iran, Iraq, also the Israelis and the US as well, when they’re compared to the other militaristic independence parties, PYD, PPK, the KDP is the lesser of all evils and nearly even OK for all parties involved. Why is Turkey still in Iraq, the Kurds/KDP aren’t doing enough to keep the nasty kurds from attacking the Turks from their territory, that’s the excuse now, when Isis was there it was to protect themselves from Isis. Sounds plausible but doesn’t make sense in itself, the Iraq government should be the ones guarding the border but because of a prior arrangement with the KDP, they’re not allowed to. The Kurds are in control of all the areas the Turks make their incursions into Iraq, all in the far north not far from the border and nowhere near regular Iraqi forces. As I said the Turks have a better relationship with the ruling KDP party in northern Iraq even better than they do with Iran or Iraq or even Syria before the war. The Turks aren’t there for nothing, it’s making the Iraqis unhappy and they could just as easily just defend their own side of the border, that would make everyone happy, except perhaps the Kurds, they might be worried that the next time the Iraqi government makes a move on the Kurds, they’ll go all the way to the Turkish border, and uncover any of the illegal going ons, and totally secure their pipelines, not that the US would ever let that happen though, if it’s not the Turks protecting them it’s the US. The price of oil to Turkey would go up if the Iraqis took over the Kurdish regions, which would mean the Iranians might put their prices up too, and I’m sure Erdogan wouldn’t like that. To complicate things even more the US has the KDP as an ally in it’s coalition against Isis, even though they’re mile away in to the south west, what a tangled web. You see things differently to me, that’s obvious, where I see collusion and blackmail you see friendships, where I see friendships you see enemies, we disagree, simple. I’ll concede I may have been wrong about Turkish troops killing regular Iraqi troops in Iraq, I spent another 15 mins searching today but gave up without finding anything again [Too hot 39c, too tired], I very often find it hard to find relevant articles that are about obscure events but this I assumed should have at at least a few associated articles I could find easily, but couldn’t, so I’m assuming it’s because I’m wrong, and because of either confusion or terrible memory, I got my facts wrong, so Sorry I apologize, and the only thing I can say in my defences is, it was unintentional. I swear even now that I haven’t found anything in a second search, I can still remember something about Iraqi regular troop deaths caused by Turkish forces, roundabout the time the Iraqis began making headway against Isis on the Syrian border up north, but as I said I must admit I must be wrong about it, so I’ll say sorry again. As to all the other matters we’ve argued about, I think your perspective is the total opposite of the real reality we see in northern Iraq, though things have been changing recently [more Iraqi oil moving through northern Iraq] the Kurds are still saying they can turn the tap on or off. They’ve convinced the Turks not to build a second pipeline to Iraq as suggested by the Iraqi government, bypassing their control, that’s quite a lot of influence the Kurds have over the Turks, the Turks really need the oil too now since the US sanctions are hitting so hard, that must of hurt knocking back the Iraqi proposal to build a new line further to the southwest and sticking to the existing arrangements they have with both the Kurds and the Iraqi government. If the Kurds weren’t part of the US coalition things would be much simpler and the perspective you imagine might have been a possibility, but both the Kurds and the Iraqi government are a part of the US coalition and what you see happening isn’t what you think. The Kurds have more leverage than you think, not just the fact they control to pipelines into Turkey, the fact is the US also likes them being in the position they’re in. STOP any influence the Iranian/Iraqi/Syrian alliance has on Turkey, which has become heavily dependent on Iraqi/Iranian oil. I have noticed the Kurdish media boasting that they’ve been able to convince the Iraqi government to reinstate payments to the Kurdish administration, but I’m sure it’s a proportional percentage of the increased revenue they Iraqi government are now getting from Turkey, it’ll be nothing more than that even if they do get it at all, we’ll see.

I’ve disproven your lies. There’s nothing in this post to change that. Best buddies don’t kill each other and governments swimming in money pay their employees. I present the truth, you’re a scammer peddling lies.

LOL do you think I give 2 tosses what a rude ignorant homosexual chimp like you thinks or says, LOL again. Blah blah blah blah. The Turks love the Kurdish democratic party in Iraq you stupid homosexual, they also love their affiliate parties in Turkey too you stupid homosexual, they don’t kill these guys you stupid homosexual, they only kill the Kurds they don’t like, but you don’t know that do you stupid homosexual. You’re too rude for me to ever be polite again, and too stupid, cheers chimp.

I’m not gay, but you are a habitual liar. The Turks routinely invade KRG territory, destroy infastructure, and kill Kurds there that the KRG is responsible for. That’s hardly a sign of trust, freindship and good relations.

The KRG is also so broke that it can’t pay it’s employees, protect it’s people, or hold territory that it claims. Your stupid Orwellian nonsense doesn’t make lies truth. It makes you a pathological liar.

You’re not gay, lol, then why do you act so gay with your offensive posts you obnoxious piece of shit, do you think that’s the way straight people act, and you’re calling me a liar, go have a banana you stupid gay transgender chimp. I’m waiting for your next stupid post so I can rip it to pieces and call you some more nasty names in the process.

All that your Orwellian double speak and false accusations do is prove that you’re a liar. And your immature behavior speaks for it self. Sometimes it’s better to keep your mouth closed and let people think that you’re a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt. You’ve chosen the latter. If you can’t debate the issues with facts and reason, than you’re wasting my time. Telling the truth about what you do and what you are in a rational manner doesn’t make obnoxious. But your crude insults and vulgarity obviously make you that.

Immature behaviour, go back and see who started being rude first you dumb transgender chimp, go eat a banana and shut up. I don’t talk to chimps, just feed them bananas, transgender chimps I put out of their misery, and that’s what I’ll be doing to you in all my posts from now on. You thought you could slap me in the face and get away with, just like all homosexuals think they can, but I’m like Donald Trump, I’m not politically correct, you slap me in the face and I punch you right back in the face, and now I won’t stop until you’re down on the ground and begging for mercy, can you understand that you stupid transgender chimp. Go have a good cry, you might feel better for a while, at least until the next time you post me that is.

You’re a liar, false accuser and head case. I’ve exposed the disinfo you peddled. I don’t need to expose that you’ve got mental issues. You do that all by yourself by the antisocial insanity that you defile these threads with. You’re wasting my time.

Are you crying you stupid little transgender chimp, I’m sure I can hear sobbing over the net, go tell your mommy chimp a nasty man’s been harassing you through your cage bars, she might give you a banana to shut you up for a while, but don’t tell her you actually started it, she might not give you a banana if you do, and instead call you a stupid little transgender chimp like I do.

You’re a truth hater and head case who can’t stand having your lies exposed.

I’m a 55 year old straight man that hates people like you being rude, I don’t hate the truth, I don’t falsely claim things, though I’m human and make mistakes, I have no mental problems and never have, and the only person you’ve exposed as a moron is yourself. You were rude to me first, called me stupid and a liar several times, and your posts prove it’s actually you that insults other people first, here’s your response to someone else’s post, “You need to do a reality check lying Jew shill” And you call me a stupid moron that has no sense of reality, look at how you talk, not just to me, but to other people too you MORONIC LGBTQI CHIMP, that’s the reality. Go have another banana and go cry to yourself, I don’t care what you think or say, you’re just a meaningless chimp. When you call me and others “stupid” or “Liars”, you lose all right to polite conversation, you become just another LGBTQI chimp then. You could prove you’re not an LGBTQI chimp with one simple action, but as yet you haven’t.

I’ve conclusively disproven your lies, you’ve disproven nothing that I’ve written and instead doubled down with more lies and false accusations. As liars like you frequently do when they have no defense for their fallacies. You’re a fool and moron using the dictionary definition of the terms. Anyone spewing the volume of idiotic nonsense that you do is a head case. You’re through wasting my time with your stupidity.

You can’t stop can you neurotic little chimp, it’s as if you have no control over yourself, stop posting me and you’ll feel much better trust me. I never ever read the story, that’s for the chimps to read, I’m human and only read between the lines, that’s the only way I can ever understand what the real story is, and it’s always different to the chimp version. Go have another banana, have a rest, and think of something else to say that might impress me, so far all I’ve heard is wa wa wa.

please give me the gist of this article

Not sure which one you mean you’ll have to let me know and I’ll try to, Cheers.

i mean the above article lavrov us is working to establish quasi state in syria

Sorry, I thought you meant one of the linked articles, I can tell you what i think it means. ……… “What is happening on the eastern bank of the Euphrates River clearly violates the commitment to Syria’s territorial integrity, declared by all and confirmed in the UN Security Council’s resolution. In my view, this is already evident for all,” Lavrov said during an interview with the Rossiya 1 TV, according to the Russian news agency TASS”.

What this means I’m not sure, he doesn’t say anything specific about what’s happening and may be just generalising, he may also be hinting at something that hasn’t been reported on yet, something we don’t know about but he does, we’ll have to wait to find out.

……. Lavrov also warned that the U.S. is taking advantage of the Kurdish issue to establish a quasi-state structures in northeastern Syria. The region is controlled by the main proxy of the U.S. in the war torn country, the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF).” “The US is trying to establish quasi-state structures, they earmark hundreds of millions of dollars into rebuilding these areas, so that people could return to a normal peaceful life, but they refuse to restore infrastructure on the territories, which are controlled by the Syrian government,” the Russian minister said.”

This is a bit easier to explain, lavrov is saying or asking, why is it when Trump keeps saying he doesn’t really want to stay in Syria and will eventually pull out, instead seems to be increasing his stake in Syria, building more military infrastructure, Ob posts on the Turkish border with Syria, sending the Kurds more equipment, he’s saying the US is doing the exact opposite of what it’s saying and complaining about it. The second part he’s complaining that the US is threatening any other country with sanctions if they spend money in Syria helping the Syrian government rebuild the country, but the US is spending heaps in the area they control rebuilding the infrastructure and helping the people, that’s called a double standard and Lavrovs calling them out for it. It makes the US look good and Assad look bad, but only if you don’t know it’s the US’s fault that no one will help Assad in the first place. ………. After imposing its control on a large part of the Syrian-Iraqi border earlier this year, U.S. forces are now working to establish positions on the border with Turkey. This step, which triggered Ankara, is apparently also a source of worry for the Russians. The U.S., which apparently believe it has an upper hand in Syria, may soon find itself trapped by Russia and its regional allies, including Turkey.

By mid year the SDF had cleaned out all of Isis in northern Syria apart from the one pocket at Hajin, and that left the Kurds all along Turkey’s border [they were there anyway before Isis came], but that made Erdogan unhappy, as you know he doesn’t like the Kurds, and he likes them less with US weapons and equipment, which they have now but didn’t before. As I said before and explained why, the Russians just want them to leave. The last part is pure propaganda, they’re hinting that the Russians and Turks might gang up on the US and the Kurds, but I think that’s the last thing that will happen. I hope this helps to explain it, at least the way I see it, somebody else might see it differently but this is my take on the story. Cheers.

thanks that is useful

thank you very much i found your explanation useful