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On August 23rd, Katsper Plazzynski, a Polish politician from the Law and Justice party accused Russia of attempting to rewrite the history that led up to World War 2.
This took place, after, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, together with Charge D’Affaire of German Embassy opened the Second World War exhibition in Moscow.
Among other things it shows the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact and its secret protocol.
“Minister Lavrov said that the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was due to the fact that Poland did not want to join the anti-Hitler coalition. Of course, this is completely meaningless, but these words have one purpose: to lay partial responsibility on Poland for the outbreak of World War II. And Sergey Lavrov practically says this directly. We cannot agree with this,” Plazzynski said.
“We are talking about how Russia deliberately falsifies history for its own domestic needs contrary to Polish state interests,” he added.
Lavrov said that it was wrong to consider the USSR alongside Germany as the aggressors and that this was just an excuse for countries to whitewash their own history of attempting doing deals with Nazi Germany.
The Russian FM said that it was the Polish-German non-aggression declaration of 1934, together with the policies pursued by Paris and London, which forced the USSR into signing the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact on August 23rd 1939.
“Under these circumstances, the Soviet Union was forced on its own to ensure its national security and signed a non-aggression pact with Germany,” Lavrov said.
Literature previewing the Second World War exhibition mentions “Poland rejecting Soviet offers of countering German expansion.”
Of course, this is an attempt to falsify history, specifically by a “Russian Journalist” – Sir Basil Henry Liddell Hart, a British soldier, military historian and military theorist.
Following are excerpts from Liddell Hart’s book “History of the Second World War,” originally published in 1970, obviously he was busy rewriting history on Russia’s behalf a while ago.
“Thus, Hitler realized that he could soon complete his plans for Czechoslovakia, and then continue to move east. At first, he did not think about an attack on Poland, although it was it that owned most of the territory cut off from Germany after the First World War. Poland, like Hungary, was useful to Hitler in that it threatened the rear of Czechoslovakia and thus forced it to yield to its demands. Incidentally, Poland seized the opportunity and also seized part of the territory of Czechoslovakia. For some time, Hitler was inclined to consider Poland a junior partner, provided that she would return the port of Danzig to him and guarantee Germany free passage to East Prussia through the Polish corridor. Under the circumstances, it was a surprisingly moderate demand from Hitler. However, during the negotiations, Hitler discovered that the Poles stubbornly refuse to make such concessions and even harbor an unfounded idea of their own power. Yet Hitler continued to hope that Poland would become more accommodating in the future. On March 25, Hitler, in an interview with the commander-in-chief of the ground forces, said that he “does not want to decide the question of Danzig through the use of force.” However, the unexpected maneuver of England that followed Hitler’s new move changed this decision.
***
However, a few days later Chamberlain completely changed his course. It was so unexpected and fraught with consequences that surprised the whole world. Chamberlain suddenly decided to block any further advancement of Hitler and on March 29th sent Poland a proposal to support it against “any action that threatens Poland’s independence and which the Polish government considers vitally necessary to resist.” Now it is impossible to find out what exactly had the predominant influence on this decision: public outrage or his own indignation; anger because Hitler deceives him, or humiliation by the fact that in the eyes of his own people he appeared stupid.
The unheard-of conditions of guarantees put England in such a position that her fate was in the hands of the Polish rulers, who had very dubious and inconsistent judgments. Moreover, England could fulfill its guarantees only with the help of Russia, but so far, no preliminary steps have been taken to find out whether Russia can provide, and Poland accept such assistance.
The cabinet was offered to approve the guarantee without even familiarizing itself with the reports of the committee of chiefs of staff, which proved the practical impossibility of effective assistance to Poland. True, it is doubtful that this would change anything in the mood that prevailed then. In the parliamentary debate, guarantees received general support. Only Lloyd George considered it possible to warn the parliament that undertaking such fraught with obligations consequences, without securing the support of Russia, is recklessness, like suicide. Poland’s guarantees were the surest way to accelerate the explosion and the outbreak of world war. They combined maximum temptation with overt provocation and incited Hitler to prove the futility of such guarantees in relation to a country beyond the reach of the West. At the same time, the guarantees received made the stubborn Polish leaders even less inclined to agree to any concessions to Hitler, who now found himself in a position that did not allow him to retreat without prejudice to his prestige.”
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In addition, Stalin had offered a million troops to stop a German attack, but the Poles wouldn’t allow the Russians to pass through, and ultimately the offer was declined. Only after these measures turned down was the USSR willing to sign a non-aggression pact to buy more time to prepare for an inevitable invasion.
This is further described in a report by the Sunday Telegraph, published in October 2008, so if Polish claims are to be trusted – the UK was also pushing Russia’s agenda to rewrite history:
“The offer of a military force to help contain Hitler was made by a senior Soviet military delegation at a Kremlin meeting with senior British and French officers, two weeks before war broke out in 1939.
The new documents, copies of which have been seen by The Sunday Telegraph, show the vast numbers of infantry, artillery and airborne forces which Stalin’s generals said could be dispatched, if Polish objections to the Red Army crossing its territory could first be overcome.
But the British and French side – briefed by their governments to talk, but not authorised to commit to binding deals – did not respond to the Soviet offer, made on August 15, 1939. Instead, Stalin turned to Germany, signing the notorious non-aggression treaty with Hitler barely a week later.
The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, named after the foreign secretaries of the two countries, came on August 23 – just a week before Nazi Germany attacked Poland, thereby sparking the outbreak of the war. But it would never have happened if Stalin’s offer of a western alliance had been accepted, according to retired Russian foreign intelligence service Major General Lev Sotskov, who sorted the 700 pages of declassified documents.
“This was the final chance to slay the wolf, even after [British Conservative prime minister Neville] Chamberlain and the French had given up Czechoslovakia to German aggression the previous year in the Munich Agreement,” said Gen Sotskov, 75.
The Soviet offer – made by war minister Marshall Klementi Voroshilov and Red Army chief of general staff Boris Shaposhnikov – would have put up to 120 infantry divisions (each with some 19,000 troops), 16 cavalry divisions, 5,000 heavy artillery pieces, 9,500 tanks and up to 5,500 fighter aircraft and bombers on Germany’s borders in the event of war in the west, declassified minutes of the meeting show.
But Admiral Sir Reginald Drax, who lead the British delegation, told his Soviet counterparts that he authorised only to talk, not to make deals.
“Had the British, French and their European ally Poland, taken this offer seriously then together we could have put some 300 or more divisions into the field on two fronts against Germany – double the number Hitler had at the time,” said Gen Sotskov, who joined the Soviet intelligence service in 1956. “This was a chance to save the world or at least stop the wolf in its tracks.”
When asked what forces Britain itself could deploy in the west against possible Nazi aggression, Admiral Drax said there were just 16 combat ready divisions, leaving the Soviets bewildered by Britain’s lack of preparation for the looming conflict.
The Soviet attempt to secure an anti-Nazi alliance involving the British and the French is well known. But the extent to which Moscow was prepared to go has never before been revealed.”
The sought-after acceptance of an offer of alliance came after Hitler began his Blitzkrieg attack on Russia in June 1941. By that time France, Poland and much of the rest of Europe were already under German occupation.
It is not surprising that the European hyena (as Churchill aptly characterized Poland) was strangled at the very beginning of the war.
But since this truth is very unpleasant for today’s mainstream propaganda, Polish nationalists and their supporters across the world are trying to refute not even the Soviet or Russian, but the British evidence about Poland’s behavior and role in unleashing the Second World War.
Attempts to portray Poland as an innocent white sheep are anti-historic and easily broken up on facts and documents, which is useful to remember on the anniversary of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact when howls about the “Soviet attack on peaceful Poland that did not want anything bad” begin again.
Naturally, any attempts by Russia to reveal historical facts, presented in non-Russian authors, as well as in Russian records is accepted as politicizing and attempting to rewrite history.
That notion is propagated strongly by MSM.
Nice spin by Lavrov, but Stalin didn’t just attack Poland prior to Adolf’s Operation Barbarossa, he also attacked Finland, Romania, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania.
Poland attacked the Czechs before 39, allied to Adolf.
Britain and France colluded with Hitler in 1938. During that period, how many people did Britain and France kill in their colonies? How many bombs did Britain drop on its enemies in the inter-war years?
Silly try you N A Z Ip rick.
He was saying that Stalin used the Poland situation as a pretext, and it was not a consequence of the ongoing war. No matter what, Stalin would invade Poland. If 1 million red army soldiers would come in Poland to “defend” it against German attack, those 1 million would stay there forever. This vision is cemented by the Soviets/Stalin attitude to the other countries: Finland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Romania, who were invaded as well.
buffer buffer buffer. Shit as it is, and maybe the capital should be deep in Siberia, but more land for the invaders to cross = more time, longer supply lines etc. Stalin was a cold strategist. The Soviets expected war for a decade, they weren’t just gonna play gentlemen to an existential threat.
By buffer state, I think the Soviets would have moved ahead with a Communist government in Poland as a buffer between themselves and the heart of Europe.
All those countries you mention, were German allies, willing troops who took part in genocide and other war crimes.
They were dictatorships, non democratic and anti-Soviet and anti-semite.
Stalin offered an alliance with Britain and France against Hitler, which was refused. Instead, Britain and France encouraged Hitler to go East, and take the Czech lands. Poland signed a non-aggression pact with Germany long before the Soviets did.
There was no ongoing war before Poland was swallowed up by its ally, Germany.
All those countries I mentioned tried to survive in a clash of titans. It was a time when France fell, England was under siege and all Europe was divided between nazis and communists. Alliance with Germany was smaller evil in all these cases. My grandparents told me how German soldiers acted and how Soviet soldiers acted. Everyone was taking what they need from their village, but at least Germans were polite and distant, while Soviets were raping, killing and torturing. A bunch of wild animals. Young girls were painting themselves in black in order to look ugly to escape the rapist thugs of red army. Many women were hiding in the fountains or in the mountains. You know sh.i.t. of real history, just came with stupid ideology. Anti-semitic, ha! Soviet leadership was 90% jewish. Moron!
You know sh.i.t. of real history, just came with stupid ideology. Anti-semitic, ha! Soviet leadership was 90% jewish. Moron!
spot on!!!
Yeah, Hitler WAS a rent-boy in Vienna.
Acc to historical info this is also what I have seen. Germany was the most civilised against women.
I don’t know that much about WW2 but I don’t think you can call any one involved civilised
Men who lived in Germany at that time were drafted into the war, “civilized” or not. They had to go. There was no choice whatsoever. Same thing in Russia.
I sort of meant the world powers involved in that war were not very civilized I fully understand your point. I didn’t make a wise choice of words
“…..at least Germans were polite and distant, while the Soviets were…etc etc…A bunch of wild animals” What you say about the Germans may be largely true but your statement about “Soviets” is highly unfair. To begin with, the Russian soldiers were not necessarily “Soviet” but just people caught by the circumstances and forced into the war not of their choice. They were driven beyond endurance, and I suppose you know how many died. Atrocities are done in all wars by all sides. Yes of course there were rapes. My mother wisely cut my and my sister’s hair and dressed us as boys. My sister was 8 and I was 10 years old. To make a long story short, I just want to say that we were not so much afraid of the Russian soldiers who had been doing the fighting, as of the Soviet party officials that followed after the fighting ended. Also, i will never forget the the truck full of Russian soldiers that stopped next to us as we walked along the road. We were terrified, but all they did was hand us a piece of bread.
I avoided to say Russians. Because they were not only Russians but others nations as well. And mainly because my opinion about Russians is much better than those… “people” acted. I don’t even say all of them were like that. Cause my grandparents were telling me also that some of the rapists were punished. So someone was smarter there too. But a little bit too late. I understand how a system can make someone from a person an animal. I understand many of those were soldiers only by name, in reality they were the poison of the society: thugs, thieves, murderers, rapists. They were or they became, Is not my call here to find out. There were times of great famine, when horrible things happen and people were doing anything to eat. You see, I’m searching for reasons – why they were like that! Russians where not like that, before Lenin and Trotsky and Stalin. Look at the White Army and compare it with Red Army. Like you compare a lord with a… Nobody was perfect, but they were usual people with good and bads and some where saints. Communism is devilish and poisons people’s mind. Many are weaker are fall very fast and very bad. That’s my opinion.
“….some of the rapists were punished” They were given permission for a short time and then ordered to stop. That was a serious order by the military. I know of some that were caught raping after that order. They were shot. About Communism, I wouldn’t call it devilish, but it was oppressive. The original idea was to bring more justice to ordinary people. I am more inclined to call capitalism devilish.
It was devilish because it tried the annihilation of the free man. Free thinking. Because it went as deep as making from a man a cloth. Because it was openly opposed to God. Those countries where communism ruled – in Europe – were Christian. Churches were demolish, priests were put in prison. Many didn’t come out. I know it very well. About capitalism, I don’t know what to say. The idea is good – free enterprise. The outcome is bad because there is no free and not enterprise anymore. Just a jewish monopoly over money and production tools.
The Russians have been restoring the churches, extravagantly beautiful, I was glad to see.
You are 84 years old Astrid, and you don’t recall any German atrocities, fearing only the Soviet Party officials? lol
And you believe the German occupation force was polite and distant! lol
The Germans murdered 20 million Soviet citizens, not soldiers, but women, children and elderly people left in the villages and towns the Germans moved through. That’s no laughing matter, and scum like yourself pretending the Germans were nice is actually a crime today, in Germany.
The Ersatzgruppen were nice!
The SS handed out tea and cakes!
You N A Z Ip rick, you did not last 12 years, of a thousand year Reich, lol at that, the biggest failure in history. Hitler was a rent boy in Vienna, and your lot adored him, like the gayboys you are.
I think your IQ is somewhere similar with your age: 12-14.
You go duck yourself you dirty pervert, thinking of 12 to 14 year olds.
You filthy git, do an Epstein and disappear.
Q.E.D.
Q.U.E.E.R
See? Your IQ is definitely below 12.
See, you can’t stop thinking of little boys, you filthy perv.
Young girls painting themselves black?
In Europe, sure they would never have stood out painted black!
You muppet, what sheet propaganda you spout, what af uckingm oron you are.
Comment section: bitchute[]com/video/FD1fRUP7f7Hd/
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f94bea995fcd268e4f48e35522f825e10a2dd691eb04ed99318231012842cc04.png
“All those countries you mention, were German allies, willing troops who took part in genocide and other war crimes. They were dictatorships, non democratic and anti-Soviet and anti-semite.”
Now that’s some of the heaviest commie propaganda I’ve read.
The baltic states and Finland were democracies. As an example, women in Finland were the first in Europe to gain the right to vote, in 1906. Finland wasn’t allied with anyone when the Soviets crossed their border in 1939.
They were dictatorships, run by military and para-military gangs. They started murdering their own JewishCommunistRussian neighbours, as soon as the Red Army left. Before the Red Army, these areas were ruled by Tsarist troops of Russia. Before the German Army arrived in a lot of cases. Finland was used by the Germans as a conduit from German occupied Norway, and had a pro German cult within its leadership.
Strategic moves in a war are commonplace, the whole of the Pacific islands were taken by the Allies, the US in particular. They were deemed to weak to reject an attack by the Japanese, so the US assumed sovereignty over them, and sent their troops, ships and aircraft there.
The British and French have done that for centuries, as has Tsarist Russia, and PolandLithuania, Sweden, Prussia, etc, etc, etc. What do you think Belgium was for, it was set up by Britain to attack France ffs.
“They were dictatorships, run by military and para-military gangs. They started murdering their own JewishCommunistRussian neighbours, as soon as the Red Army left.”
Let’s at least stick to facts. Finland and Estonia were democracies. I don’t know about Latvia or Lithuania simply because I haven’t read up on their specific leadership at the time. No jews were killed in Finland either, look it up. Mannerheim told Hitler there is no jewish problem in Finland. In Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania yes, it did happen. But if we are going to talk about killings, we need to mention the Soviet killings as well. Both during the first occupation and when they came back. Take off your red goggles for a while.
Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were authoritarian states during the inter-war years, while Finland was fighting a civil war, with heavy handed state actions against Finnish-Russians and “Bolsheviks”. The Finns allowed the Germans transit of their territory, as did Sweden, a crime in international affairs. A simple google of Baltic states in the inter-war years would tell you that, but ye nazis hate to look up facts that go against your silly Russophobia.
Are you saying that what happened in Finland in 1918 (when a red overtake was stopped) justified a Soviet invasion in 1939? I don’t get your logic there, simply because there is none. The Soviets invaded the baltics and Finland with no justification what-so-ever. The Estonians on the contrary fought off the Germans from Latvia to gain their independence in 1918. You are talking about German transits from Norway to the eastern front, but that only happend later in the war and could not have justified any intrusion years earlier.
I’m not a Russophobe but I just don’t like communism. I destroyed Russia and what it would have been today.
The Soviet Union granted independence to the Finns you slow muppet. 1918 was WW1, there were no independent states, all those states were Tsarist Russian for centuries.
Finland allowed German transit, which was why the Soviets wanted a land swap with them, as they knew the pro German element of Finnis leadership, was pro-German.
As I say, tell the US to hand back all the territories it has annexed simply to stop other powers taking those territories. Starting with Hawaii, and lets count Camp Bondsteel in Kosovo, and all the other annexed bases in Germany, Japan, Britain etc etc.
As for Poland, they threatened Lithuania, and tried to take Vilnius after they were re-constituted after WW1, they attacked Czechoslovakia with their ally Germany in 1938, and also encouraged Germany to join them in a war against the Soviets. The Polish government left Poland, and in international diplomacy, a country without a government, is not a country any more. The Soviet Union took over a non state in 1939, a fact shown to be true when neither Britain or France, Polish allies, nor the League of Nations, ever accused the Soviet Union of invading Poland. It was the German invasion that triggered the cowardly leadership of Poland deserting their posts, and de-legitimised their state.
Maybe not invade Poland, but at the very least install a Communist government.
Hahaha, nice try. Czechs were occupied by nazi Germany since 1938.
With their Polish allies you muppet!
Poland and Germany picked the Czechs apart in 1938, haven’t you ever read a history book?
But you wrote, that the czechs occupied Poland!
In your dreams, can’t you read, like anyone else?
What a muppet you are, ever heard comprehension, even basic reading before spouting!
Remember Poland was among the 6 big world powers in year 1600 and 1700 and when I say big world power I mean BIG world power.
For more than 200 years Poland dominated Europe and beyond with their cabbage and potatoes exports.
Therefore its no wonder Poland gave Hitler, Stalin and Churchill the F…finger when they tried to mess around with a BIG world power. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e60e4eb57e11f43011a949ef10faec58d23b8e197cbe1609133604df4bb40f3e.jpg
They never were big power. What they were – a willing vassal of the west being happy to rule slavic world on behalf of their western masters.
Poland-Lithuania was a large regional power before it was annexed by Russia, Prussia and Austria. That picture is from Victoria 2 developed by Paradox Interactive.
The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was a large regional power before it was annexed by Russia, Prussia and Austria. That picture is from Victoria 2 developed by Paradox Interactive.
https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/560faec49156566a317c1214527bebe000d083fff0a65391291e80ddc6840f15.gif
I know the history. Yes, there was Polish-Lithuanian state but it doesn’t change the fact that it was nothing other than vassal state relative to west. Just the same way it is now.
I guess you never heard of the Polish empire. But wait, your culture starts and ends with Soviet Union. Sorry, man.
I’ve heard of Polish empire as they call it. It doesn’t change the fact that it was always subordinate to west. Vassal empire :)
No I didn’t, are you blind.
I know my history, but I wasn’t reared by Nazi scum like you were.
nauč se číst, idiote …
The boy changed his comment.
okay, sorry
Ano ;)
Talks about Britain and France colluding with Germany in 1938, forgets USSR colluded with Germany in 1939-1941 (before June 22).
It was a response to British attempts to get their German cousins to attack the Soviets, did you expect the Soviets to take on the war before you ?
If the Brits and French had agreed to stand up to Hitler far earlier with Stalin, as the Soviets had offered, then Hitler would never have been able to pick Europe apart at his choosing.
Even more important would have been for the British, French and US banks who were funding the re-building of the German military, to have never agreed to such a ridiculous loan!
You do realize the Soviet DP-27 light machine gun and the following tanks: T-26, BT-2/BT-5/BT-7, and amphibious tanks that could be airlifted and dropped by aeroplane (T-60, T-70) were reverse engineered from tanks purchased from British and American weapons manufacturers that also helped construct top notch armament factories in the Soviet Union? Also, Max Warburg (relative of James Warburg who was involved in the creation of the Federal Reserve) and Jacob Schiff provided a substantial amount of money into financing the Bolshevik revolution.
NS Germany was against central banking and worked on paying off their loans from the Weimar era.
Michael Collins Piper – Bush, Rockefeller, Rothschild & HitlerWatch: bitchute[]com/embed/2p1Lv630CsWt/
I’m fully aware of Soviet importation of heavy machinery, don’t forget the jet engines RollsRoyce sold them after WW2. The Soviets realised that they were going to need large industry to fight the future wars the West would throw at them, what good foresight that turned out to be. Britain herself used US destroyers, tanks, aircraft, as did France even after WW2. Britain today is even more dependent on the US, whereas Russia designs and builds all its own military equipment, and exports all around the globe.
Hitler got his money from US, British and French banks, and he was a lunatic who murdered people because they were not Aryan, blue eyed and blond, like himself! Krupp’s, Seimen and IG Farbin didn’t work for the love of the Fuehrer. The US cleared all German debt, to all nations, after they occupied Germany.
Zaolzie is insignificant historical trivia. Your description of Western colonial abuses is correct, but not relevant to the topic, you, B lithering B olshevik B uffoon.
B B B! I’m so hurt Feelthelicks.
Wtf is Zaolzie, can’t you post in English, on an English language site?
Nice try but only works for those who don’t know real historical facts. Attack Poland? Please tell us which exactly battles took place while Stalin attacked Poland. Which troops participated on Polish side?
Oh, the stalin’s worshiper is back.
So, you’ve edited your comment. No mention of insignificant trivia like Zaolzie? Your questions can be easily answered by utilizing a search engine.
So tell us the names of the battles between Polish and Soviet forces, weeks after Germany crushed the Polish armed forces!
Feelthelicks, use that search engine, as no one else can find any military encounters between Polish forces and Soviet forces in 1939.
Still searching the search engines?
They must be steam powered ffs.
Than go on. Answer if that is so easy.
Churchill’s War – David Irving: bitchute[]com/video/5xwdCFhvAQuU/
They also wanted to setup bases in Bulgaria and the Dardanelles (in Turkey) like they had already done in Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia through the threat of force before attacking Finland and seizing the Baltic nations in the spring after the three month Winter War with Finland. As for Romania, they had only threat. These annexations, while accepted by Germany under the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, influenced Hitler and the German High Command to go ahead with Barbarossa since Romania was their only alternative source to oil in wartime other than natural oil purchased from the Soviet Union and synthetic oil produced in Germany. In fact Germany’s fuel shortages led to them adopting alternative means of energy, one such invention was wood power.
Wood Powered Tanks? Lost Technology: youtu[]be/3apnzNVHtLg
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I believe the bases in Bulgaria etc. were demands delivered by Molotov to Hitler as part of Stalin’s conditions to join the Axis. Stalin knew Hitler would not except the conditions. Also, Bukovina was occupied by Soviet troops and it was not part of the secret protocols and this placed Soviet forces within 150km of Ploesti which made Hitler more distrustful of Stalin (if that was even possible).
I also noted your comment on reverse engineering of tech to build what were generally light tanks, easy to take out but Germany would face thousands and thousands of them. What Germany feared were the new generation tanks such as the KV1 and famous T-34 with a powerful 76mm long barrel armament (later 85mm long). The T-34 was very fast for its size and armour due to using US tractor tech. But give the Soviets credit for using sloped armour, later copied by all other combatants, particularly Germany – compare Tiger 1 to Panther and King Tiger (Tiger 2).
Soviet tanks were awesome in WWII…
Due to Molotov-Ribbentrop there is not moch trust the Polish and Romanians have in Russia. The recent US missile deployments derive form this too.
Yes, Poland’s hostility towards Russia should be no surprise. I posted this a month ago about the past coming back to haunt you:
Comment for July 12, 2019 SF article: SYRIAN ARMY RECAPTURES AL-HAMAMEYAT AND ITS HILL IN NORTHERN HAMA, KILLS DOZENS OF MILITANTS ————————– …Poland was often the sacrificial lamb caught in the middle of power struggles between Russia and Western Europe. Germany and Austria-Hungary and Russia all lost territory to create Poland, Austria-Hungary broke up altogether.
Poland land corridor was a great power decision following WWI and would be a potential Cassus belli between Germany and Poland. Great powers decided on the political settlement of the Middle East with break up of Ottoman and a betrayal of the Arabs, which made for a volatile ME. Multi-polar world order is what we are returning to and the great powers in the past have moved the chess pieces only to plant seeds for future conflict. After WWII, the Jewish problem was resolved by the partition plan where the great powers imposed their will on Palestinians to solve a problem of their own making and we know how that has turned out.
Tthe Polish corridor was resolved with Prussia integrated into Poland and part to Soviet Union. Soviet Union as victor annexed the Polish territory occupied after invading Poland under hidden protocols in the Molotov-Ribbentrop Non-aggression Pact – Poland will remember this knife in the back for a long time. Combine that with Polish subjugation until 1991, there is no mystery why Poland is hostile to Russia. These are the seeds Russia planted in playing their part in great power global chess.
I am warning the great powers, and that includes Russia to be mindful what seeds they are planting today because tomorrow is never far away.
Poland stole that land with the help of Britain after WW1, learn some history, not propaganda. Poland was a very hostile state up until the time the Swedes, Austrians, German states and Russia got together, and disbanded the aggressor state of Poland.
It was Britain and France, looking for a forward base against the Soviets and Germany after WW1, that re-constituted Poland, a bit like Al Tanf in Syria. Somewhere the West could cause trouble, when it suited them.
I am speaking of what the general population in Poland learn of their history – and the US is exploiting this. Much of what is in history books are revisionist fairy tales, but it is what shapes opinion nonetheless, such as generating hostility towards official enemies – like the anti-Russian hysteria – totally contrived – but I know people that are convinced Putin is evil and Russia must be stopped … etc. When I try to talk reason, I get nothing but hostility. Propaganda works.
That said, even revisionist versions of history will have elements of truth. Regardless of the role of other nations or if Poland was asking for it, the Soviet invasion of Poland and annexation of territory would be viewed by Poles as treachery and many expletives directed at Russia. My point was this should be no surprise.
If you can educate the Polish people to come around to your way of thinking then maybe the hostility could be countered – but you will probably get as far as I did over Anti-Russian hysteria, which was nowhere.
Poland has been giving the poor us tale to the world for centuries.
Instead of being grateful for getting their nation back, and getting on with re-building it, they went straight for Fascism, and looking beyond their actual borders, to lands they felt could be theirs.
The Soviets freed Poland from an enemy who tried to murder every single Polish citizen, and then left Poland, under a Polish government.
The Poles should be kissing SovietRussian ass for eternity in gratitude.
The Brits and French never turned up for their “allies”.
“……The Soviets freed Poland…..” that’s a laugh – like from the frying pan into the fire. Nobody that I know of wanted to be under the Soviets. Too bad though that the Poles, now that they really are free, are so unreasonable against Russia. Things change, and why can’t we make peace!
Than soviets should have stopped in 1944 on Poland borders and sign peace treaty with Germany wouldn’t you agree? Im sure Polish would have appreciated that and there would be no disagreements between Poland and Russia now…
“Then the Soviets should have stopped in 1944…… I have no idea what anyone “should have done in 1944”
You also have no idea who freed Poland apparently..
But i think (considering your reply) that you have a some idea what would happened to Poland and Polish, had a Soviets stopped and didnt free them… So be smart, stop laughing and do not compare nazis and soviet rule over Poland – since they are very, very fkin different.. And you can be sure, that many countries and nations would in that time prefer rule of soviets before the rule of USA, GB, France etc..
The Nazi rule over Poland was abominable. You will have to ask the Poles if they liked the Soviets better.
I dont actually.. All i need to know is that Nazis occupation did cost Poland milions of dead and Nazis planned to exterminated them – nothing of sort happened nor was planned by USSR! Your comparison is total bullshit and false..
The Soviets were many things, but not genocidal. They were no more brutal than the British or French were with their colonies, and far less brutal than the US were with their native peoples.
The Red Army liberated Poland, the other Allies never came near direct aid, and freed them from a program of genocide being carried out on an ever increasing pace by the Germans. 40 million+ Poles today would never have happened otherwise, that is a fact. The whole of Eastern Europe would be a German farm today, only for the might of the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union met its fate with grace, leaving behind the independent states of today.
If you find my earlier comment answering Ishyrion you can see i have nothing against the Soldiers of the Red Army. For us it was the Soviets that were the nightmare, and I don’t know who was worse, the Nazis or the Soviets. There were people caught between them with no way out. That was my experience a a child. I have since read comments on Russia Insider written by Russians, who explained how the Soviet Union worked and really did some good for people. It took me a while but eventually I could see their point. I went to Russia in 1997, and was told by several people something like this: “The Soviets were bad, but now it’s all Mafia and even worse”. That was before Putin. On the other hand, I had to go to the Police station because I had my Passport stolen and the Policemen were laughing and joking and my interpreter said: “At least now they are laughing. In Soviet time all was serious and nobody was laughing. Well, life goes on, as you see.
There is no question who is worse, nothing comes near what the Nazis did, in history. A perverted rent boy from Vienna, getting humongous loans from British, French and US banks, to build the largest invasion force in history! He wanted a blond, blue eyed tall race, so where did the little freak from Austria fit in?
What part of his ideology did you confuse with Stalinism?
True. Especially because after the war these countries were covered with the black mask of communism and that made memories last much longer. So much blood was spilled, an entire generation was put to prison and destroyed. Even now, after 30 years we cannot forget what happened and, in order to forgive, Russia should ask for forgiveness instead of dreaming at the devilish soviets time. The only reason US breached so easily in Eastern Europe is because Soviet time made Russia to look very ugly. And in order for that to change, the ball is in Russia’s yard.
I think Putin has done a great and patient job to show the previous East-Europe “buffer nations” that times have changed.
No, he didn’t. He must come public and apologize. He is a good historian or at least he has good counselors. He is also a good psychologist. He has to start with that. I appreciate him, he is a man of his word and a great leader. But he must keep the soviet good times speech inside, just for the nostalgic Russians. Because in Eastern Europe we know what Soviet meant: the most devilish empire ever built.
Putin said he acknowledged the occupation and apologized several times and he seems to be tired of it, and i can understand it. But on the other hand those times cannot be forgotten either. All had a bad time, including the Russians of course. But after all that, nothing would be more stupid than instigating another war.
Well, he did said that the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact is not valid anymore, is true. Some things then must be corrected. At least at the discourse level.
What about the Polish-German Non Aggression Pact?
No wonder the Soviets didn’t trust the Poles, and the Russians also know from previous experience just how devious they are.
The US are just taking the place of Hitlers Germany, as they become the new non aggression party members with Poland.
Everybody lies, what should be the case is about what, WW2 was because of WW1, if you dont get it you have an problem, not I. The Brits, an dwindling empire, after slaughtering millions, even before WW1, and so on, the UssA whom have been in constant wars for over 270 years, on 250 countrys, and so on, the Franche whom suddenly is an angel, huh, etc, and then we have Hitler, an man whom managed to do what few have done in human history, dragged an nation from rubble to be an economic superpower within 2 decades, I know of just few others in that calss of nation leaders, and Putin/Xi are among them, if you dont get that either, you have an problem, and then we end up with the Polak f…. along with the Dutchery of Lihuanians, whom have managed to art of been completely invisible, despite their bloody past, and by that all the way back to medivial times, thru wars, Vatican scumbags northbound crusades, whom do you think helped them, when they went north and incl attacking what was then Russia, to the Napoleon wars, etc.
Hrumf… and of course Finland, Lavrov, I dont expect any truth coming from the present Russian Gov for as propably so long I am alive maybe in the future, but not now. The reason Norway, Sweden, and Denmark didnt lift a finger to help, even when they where an part of the civil war in Finland during the “revolution” occuring in Russia, when I know Norway as one ex. was totally controlled by the Brits and the Jews, and Germany was not, the reason they crashed and attacked Germany. The same reason for not lifting an finger when Sovjet attacked Finland in 39, aka the winter war. The level of historical bollocks is stil massive. Again Finns, Norway, Sweden and Denmark have an history, Finland and Russia have just myths, weird isnt it, and then the Mongol scam farse they claim, the Norse sheep f…. and montian monkeys, whom mostly are european slavs from Polan, etc, and their claim about been original Nordick is 100% bullshit. The genetics, morons tells the truth, there isnt an iota of Mongol genes in Finns, but My people is also Finnish, but much older, nothing, because that alone is one hell of an lie, and Finns if you idiots read the map I gave you from 814, was all the way to the Ural montain range, to then use the present demographics as an prof of Finns been Mongols is just an scam among an long, long line of total nonsense we call historical science witch is even worse than other scams like AGW and Money, uh…. theorys. Huh.
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_V_mtDNA.shtml (did you really knew, about that line did you, I know they deliberatly hide Us, because we dont fit into the moronic babel called Out of Africa, and beside, the white sea region was NOT covered with ice) I usually dont bother to klick on anything Wikikyikeypedos drool on their site/s so this one is for now sufficient. And tell me, since they again says something about eastern uh…. Sami, an name that even tho I am one, I dont use, because its been highjacked by fake North Sami rats, but do notice the Rivers, inside Russia to the Maris etc, thats why, and the divertion in europa is because we where sea faring thousands of years ago, to the present, and if you idiots take an look on the northen global sea rutes and how the main water streams like the Gulf of Mexico goes the natural water way, or highway have always been there, that rute is also what the Africans-South-americans used, their history have to been hidden, and Blacks story is equall as Mine, and I hope the Blacks dont fall for the PC-f.., nonsense about Blacks been Nordick, because they are ruining Your history as so called White slaves are runing ours, with layers of lies, begining centurys ago. Valdimir of Yarolsav was a full blown Finn, Tunsberg was Finnish, and our land up north whas where the name Varangian comes from, the white sea region, and Kola peninusla to Achangels etc, etc, and again, we are been thru centurys pushed further and further into smaller and smaller regions, and this map shows us as we are to day, not what was the past. I may surprice some of you, whom thought I was an White ass nationalist, hell I am, but I also am for the Blacks, 100%, but that is another case, they have to do it them self, as I am fighting form mine.
peace
and then we have Hitler, an man whom managed to do what few have done in human history, dragged an nation from rubble to be an economic superpower
first of all get his Name straight… Schickelgruber!!!! secondly he was Born and raised in Austria thirdly Salomon Rothshild(from vienna capital of Austria) was his grandfather fourthly Germany was more than dead broke after WW1 and the reparations last but most imporatant…. the zionists bankrolled Hitler and his Party…..hence the Name
NaZi Na stands for hitlers Party NAtional socialist Workers Party ZI stands for Zionism
Nice to hear from you, I take your rant like the wind in the Willows, and peace to you too.
Revisionism, episode 271. If you ain’t up on the first 270, then this is fake news :D the propagandised masses will not blink to ignore this!
“The Russian FM said that it was the Polish-German non-aggression declaration of 1934, together with the policies pursued by Paris and London, which forced the USSR into signing the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact on August 23rd 1939.
“Under these circumstances, the Soviet Union was forced on its own to ensure its national security and signed a non-aggression pact with Germany,” Lavrov said.”
Ouch, hooow big BULLSHIT!
The Mo-Ri was not about non-agression, but mainly about division of Poland.
Lavrov is the big falsificator of history.
Shame on him, shame on hos government, shame on Tudor Miron!
The Polish-German Non Aggression Pact of 1934 is recorded in history, on paper signed by Poles and Germans.
Don’t let facts get in the way of your Russophobia.
Sure, you idiot! And the facts are others that Lavrov said!!!
The facts are the same for Poland as Britain, France and all other nations who can read documents.
:))) are you a retarded?
The gap between Russia and the countries from Eastern Europe are enlarging with every year, they are willing to be a buffer zone between the West and Russia – exactly what Russia wants only on the other side :D
Relax. Since Kinzhal and Poseidon were created Russia doesn’t need any buffer zone for the next 20-30 years. It’s more likely that in upcoming crisis, the biggest suckers from EU budget which are the most of Eastern Europe countries, will suffer the biggest fall of their wealth.
Wishful thinking. Unlike Russia that exports oil and gas, the other Eastern European countries have some manufacture industries, when the crisis hits, the biggest energy suckers which are the car makers from EU will need to take a pause.
East European countries export East European workers, and nothing else.
Russia is the number one grain exporter, and also produces motor vehicles from Germany, Japan and Korean makers, alongside its own producers. Kamaz trucks are one of the largest truck companies in the world. Russia is also the leading nation in space travel, satellites and so on. Russia also is a major producer of mined products, from copper, gold, diamonds, amber, coal, iron ore, zinc and thousands of other products. Russia also has a world leading aircraft industry, they build everything, and have many customers. The agricultural sector is also growing, medicines, pharmaceutical products.
Why don’t you do a modicum of research before posting such poor MSM BS?
Wheat are 2.3% of the total exports, while gas oil and coal are 60%, raw metals are 15%, diamonds, gold and other rare metals 5%
So more than 80% of the Russian exports are natural resources that Eastern European countries don’t have at all.
Still there is no East European country with a lower GDP growth than Russia, show me a single one that grows slower than Russia in 2018 or the first semester of 2019.
That means Russian work productivity is shit.
Why don’t you do a basic research before repeating like a parrot what the corrupt midget told you?
Listen youp rick, Eastern Europe sends its citizens to us, here in Western Europe. In my park live Georgians, Romanians, Poles and Latvians. They live in the surrounding parks also. Not one of them plans on going home, other than for visits to family, or to bring back cheap goods from their homeland.
Your figures are in your imagination, put the figures up from a UN, EU or Russian site you silly little boy. Eastern Europe is shit without the Soviets.
Yeah everyone from Eastern Europe wants to live in your Soviet shithole…
You say the numbers I presented are in my imagination? Name one country from Eastern Europe and I will show you that they, unlike you lazy alcoholic ruskies export manufactured products, not raw materials.
And maybe that’s why the export also workers, because nobody wants lazy drunk stinky ruskyes
The Soviets are gone since 1991, you slow thing.
It is your imagination, googling tells me you are the biggestp rick since King Dong.
” Eastern Europe is shit without the Soviets. ” ” The Soviets are gone since 1991, you slow thing. ”
Yeah I’m the slowest thing here.
I’m telling you again, name a random country from Eastern Europe and I will show you bigger GDP growth than Russia and over 80% of their exports – finite products – unlike Russia that exports over 80% natural resources.
About time you admitted it, you slow dog.
Show me again the report from the World Bank, EuroReport, Wall Street Journal even, that support the imaginary figures you quoted. lol
Crazy Galician, great at murdering civilians, useless at propaganda.
Last time you were pretending that you’re not Ruskie. I’m glad you couldn’t hold your shit any more. Here is your link https://oec.world/en/profile/country/rus/ now go cry in your corner cuz I understand that Ruskies can’t use google.
” About time you admitted it, you slow dog. ”
Yeah, I’m so slow I can’t keep up with your fine sarcasm.
I don’t pretend, and I’m so glad you admit you are slow.
Got any real facts? lol
Telling me how glad you are if I admit I’m slow tells me how much I occupy of your tiny brain, and i can’t fit it that small piece of shit.
I don’t have any real facts so Russia is not a suicidal nation at all http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/suicide-rate-by-country/
Just sell all your raw resources, let the Moscow oligarchy take everything and shot in your veins an overdose of vodka or krokodil
There weren’t any Russians guarding Nazi concentration camps in Poland, just Polish collaborators.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/hitler-stalin-pact-august-23-1939/5687021
We are talking about how Russia deliberately falsifies history for its own domestic needs contrary to Polish state interests
Oh those Russians! How dare they put their own interests contrary interests of the ruler of the Universe, the state of Great Poland. Can anyone explain me how it can be?
What the article doesn’t address is the US role in the European conflict. Given an alliance between the SU and the US. Western Europe choose the US. Which hadn’t been mass murdering 10s of millions of it’s own people in Jew run famines, purges, and concentration camps after WW1 like the SU. Stalin was looked at as being just as big of a monster as Hitler. Who would do to his conquests what he was doing to his own people. That’s why nobody wanted to ally with the SU when allying with the US was an alternative.
Now the pendulum has swung. And it’s Russia and China that got rid of their Jews, like the US and the whole world should. And people want to be allied with Russia, now that it has learned it’s lesson the hard way. And China. When the Jew infested US is the hegemon waging endless fabricated Jew world order wars against humanity.
“An anti-Communist book from 1937 which revealed that Communist Jews were the commandants of 11 out of the 12 main Stalinist-era Gulags, or concentration camps, including the camp system directors Matvei Berman and Hershel Jehuda. Ultimately, some 14 million people would be detained in the 53 camps which operated from 1934 to 1953. According to official Soviet data”
– Jewish-Run Concentration Camps in the Soviet Union –
https://www.amazon.com/Jewish-Run-Concentration-Camps-Soviet-Union/dp/1291002758
‘Within a short period of time, Cheka became the largest and cruelest state security organization. Its organizational structure was changed every few years, as were its names: From Cheka to GPU, later to NKVD, and later to KGB.
We cannot know with certainty the number of deaths Cheka was responsible for in its various manifestations, but the number is surely at least 20 million, including victims of the forced collectivization, the hunger, large purges, expulsions, banishments, executions, and mass death at Gulags. …
“Genrikh Yagoda,” the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, the GPU’s deputy commander and the founder and commander of the NKVD. Yagoda diligently implemented Stalin’s collectivization orders and is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people. His Jewish deputies established and managed the Gulag system.”
– Stalin’s Jews –
https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html
You have a gap in your theory. If everyone wants to ally with those who got rid of the Jews, than everyone had to ally with Hitler in 1939.
To an extent they did ally with Hitler by not allying with the SU. Knowing that he was getting rid of Jews and was likely to attack the SU. And now that Russia is considerably less Jew infested than the US, they want to ally with Russia.
Why then they did allied with Poland instead of Germany?
I don’t understand your question.
Russia’s problem is that it has decided to claim the USSR’s Great Patriotic War as its national mythos. You can’t criticize it for to do so is un-Russian and unpatriotic. The problem is that this mythos also comes with Stalin,who did terrible things before, during and after that war, and is a monster on par with Hitler. To chose between Hitler or Stalin is to be forced to chose between lung cancer or a brain tumor. Because Russia has chosen to adopt the Great Patriotic War, with Stalin and all as its national mythos it now has inherited all the historical fallout that comes with it. Like Stalin cooperating with Hitler in invading Poland, invading Finland, Romania and the Baltics. And taking over Eastern Europe and installing communist governments there at the bayonet point of the Red Army. That doesn’t sit well with those Eastern Europeans. Who don’t think as fondly of the heroic victorious Red Army as Russians do. Which is why as soon as they got the chance those Eastern Europeans ditched Mother Russia for the wide military coat tails of Uncle Sam. Yeah, it’s exchanging one vassal overlord for another, but Uncle Sam hasn’t done to them what Mother Russia did.
Since Russia has swallowed the Great Patriotic War whole it now feels it has to excuse Stalin’s behavior and blame his victims instead. Damn those Poles for not giving in to have Stalin sent in a million Red Army troops. Who has history has shown, would probably have not left until the USSR collapsed. While it should have been so easy for Russia. Blame Stalin for all the bad, while adopt the good. Yay for the Russian people to have stopped Hitler and kick him out of Mother Russia, despite for Stalin’s shenanigans before, during and after the war. And blame all the bad on him and present yourself as Stalin’s victim too. Yeah, Poland, that was terrible what Stalin did to you. But we were his victims too. His first in fact. Katyn was bad. But there are whole mass graves of dead Russians in Siberia too. Men with mustaches bad. Now let us be friends and get rich together instead!
It should have been so easy.
Stalin was a Georgian, and he never ordered a Holocaust.
Keep your Nazi ideology where it belongs, in the dustbin of history, after a brief and bloody 12 years.
What a shame, you are missing every point.
You didn’t see any un-polite German troops during WW2, but you think I missed something?
Shut up you Nazi witch.
The Antifa pedophile gay boy – skinner the return – forgets Stalin willingly provoke the great famine in 1932-1933 where 7 millions Russian died. And that is worse than any holocaust who may happen or not in the recent history, it was the largest genocide.
It is not so easy for most people to think this clearly. And what is Uncle Sam up to?
Uncle Sam takes advantage of this situation and wants to fight Russia till the last Romanian, Pole, Estonian, Latvian and Lithuanian.
“Uncle Sam takes advantage…..” Exactly.