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Russian peacekeepers are deploying to Nagorno-Karabakh after a permanent ceasefire was established in the region at 00:00 local time on November 10. 1,970 troops, 90 armored personnel carriers and 380 units of other equipment are set to be deployed in the region. The core of the peacekeeping contingent will be units of the 15th Separate Motorized Rifle Brigade.
According to the statement signed by President of Azerbaijan Ilham Aliyev, Prime Minister of Armenia Nikol Pashinyan and President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin, Azerbaijani and Armenian forces halt their operations and keep the positions that they currently control. The sides also agreed on exchange of prisoners of war.
Additionally, Baku and Yerevan agreed on the following steps:
– Armenia should return control of the Kalbajar district to Azerbaijan by November 15, and the Lachin district by December 1, 2020. The 5km-wide Lachin corridor will be kept to ensure the connection of Nagorno-Karabakh with Armenia. The town of Shusha remains in the hands of Azerbaijan. In addition, by November 20, Armenia should return control of the Agdam district and a part of the Gazakh district to Azerbaijan.
– Russian peacekeepers are deployed for the period of five years with an automatic renewal for an additional five-year period, if none of the parties to the agreement decides to withdraw from it.
– A peacekeeping center will be created to monitor the ceasefire and the implementation of the agreements.
– In the next three years, the sides will agree on a plan for the construction of a new traffic route between Stepanakert and Armenia along the Lachin corridor. When the route is created, the Russian peacekeeping contingent will be re-deployed to protect it.
– Internally displaced persons and refugees will return to Nagorno-Karabakh and the surrounding areas under the supervision of the UN High Commissioner for Refugees.
– All economic and transport links in the region will be unblocked. Armenia will take steps to provide transport links between the Azerbaijani mainland and the Nakhchivan Autonomous Republic. This will be overseen and secured by Russian border guards. It is planned to ensure the construction of new transport communications for this purpose.
Azerbaijani President Aliyev also stated that the Turkish side would participate in the peacekeeping mission. Likely, the Turks will be involved in the peacekeeping center.
It should be noted that the ceasefire deal was officially announced late on November 9, just a few hours after Azerbaijan shot down a Russian Mi-24 helicopter, which was escorting a convoy of forces of the 102nd Russian military base near the village of Eraskh inside Armenia. The foreign ministry as well as the top military and political leadership of Azerbaijan, including the president and defense minister, immediately admitted the incident offering their apologies and proposing compensation to the Russian side. According to Baku, the helicopter was shot down by mistake in a time of tension and Armenian provocations. Open military conflicts always set conditions for various incidents involving forces deployed even in a relatively close proximity to the combat zone. The unprecedentedly rapid and straight reaction of Azerbaijan demonstrates that Baku was not interested in an escalation with Russia. Meanwhile, Azerbaijan saw Armenia as a direct participant of the Nagorno-Karabakh war despite attempts of the Armenian leadership to pretend that Azerbaijan was in a war with forces of the self-proclaimed Armenian Nagorno-Karabakh Republic only.
On the other hand, the location of the village of Eraskh is far from the actual combat zone. Therefore, there is a small possibility that this was a Turkish-instigated provocation/demonstration of force that should somehow warn and deter Russia from intervening into the Karabakh war on the side of Armenia.
This may be compared with the Turkish posture in Syria, when its warplane shot down a Russian Su-24 warplane in the first months of the Russian military operation there in 2015. Nonetheless, it should be noted that this Turkish demonstration led to little results and the Russian operation there turned the tide of the war to the favor of the allied government of Bashar al-Assad.
Expectedly, the November 10 peace led to a deep political crisis in Armenia, with chaos in the parliament and the strengthening of calls to dismiss Pashinyan from his post. In its own turn, the Pashinyan group fiercely resists this scenario pretending that it was not responsible for the loss in the war. In fact, the outcome of the current Nagorno-Karabakh war was inevitable taking into account the foreign and internal policy posture of Soros-linked Prime Minister Pashinyan and his inner circle that seized power as a result of the coup in 2018. SouthFront in detail forecasted the war in Nagorno-Karabakh and its outcome in its analysis “Crisis in Armenia and Balance of Power in South Caucasus” released in June 2018.
Currently, the pro-Western Armenian elites will try to keep their power justifying the Karabakh defeat by some “insurmountable obstacles” and the lack of support from Russia. Pro-Western Armenian media has already started blaming Russia for the alleged betrayal. If the Pashinyan clique somehow remains in power and succeeds in promoting its agenda, the withdrawal of Russian peacekeepers from the conflict zone and the full loss of Karabkah for the Armenians will become inevitable within the next 5 years.
If the Pashinyan clique somehow remains in power and succeeds in promoting its agenda, the withdrawal of Russian peacekeepers from the conflict zone and the full loss of Karabkah for the Armenians will become inevitable within the next 5 years.
What’s logical and obvious for Armenia after this massive defeat and betrayal? To turn elsehwere, find substitute ‘friends and allies’, who can easily enough replace the Russians in what is now a minor rump of Artsakh, and sever ties with a ‘protector’ who has failed to protect Armenians for the third time in little over a century, instead enabling and empowering jihadist Turkics and rewarding them for genocidal aggression in taking ancient Armenian land, even much of the little that was left.
Russia blew it badly here, I laid out the lines for a tolerable settlement here some time ago, instead Russia serves up this pile of reeking dung? Criminally stupid, treacherous, and wicked.
Turn to whom? At this point they don’t have anyone to “turn to”. After their trolls it’s hard to feel the slightest sympathy for them in any case.
Russian trolls are any better? Turn to the West, that’s who. Not that the West is perfect by a long way, but it’s much richer than Russia, which has proven it is useless.
What did the so called west do for Armenia all through these weeks when it was pretending to win the war while steadily losing it? And now what exactly can Armenia do to entice the “west” to support it?
” What did the so called west do for Armenia all ” It made the Kardashians famous.
What exactly was the West supposed to do for Artsakh? During a highly contested US election and resurging pandemic no less. I in fact said it should so something, but Russia was the main player apart from the Turks. Armenia and Georgia can and will look for Western support and protection, it’s only logical after this. Which it will certainly be interested in extending, to weaken Russia apart from anything. Despite my advice, Russia failed to save enough for it to be worth Armenia’s while to stick with Russia any more. Same goes for various others. Russia has been shown to be a ruthless bandit and betrayer of Caucasian Christians to Turko-Muslims, what Christians outside Syria would look to Russia ever again?
Don’t blame me, I tried to prevent this disaster, Putin should have listened, because now he chose a path that only ends badly for Russia. Like most here he is probably an ignorant cynical atheist in fact, from his conduct, but God Himself will punish Russia for this treachery, this was a Test, and Putin’s Russia failed. He also fell into the Sauros-set trap.
Since it couldn’t do a thing, even when the Pashinyan regime was shrilly anti Russian, what exactly will it do now that Armenia is dependent on Russian protection absolutely? Besides, the Ottoman Empire is still NATO’s second largest military and by NATO standards extremely competent (indeed the only competent military in NATO). The Ottomans are still the most strategically located country in NATO, sitting across the chokepoint of the Black Sea and overlooking all of West Asia between Lebanon and Iran. Amerikastani nuclear weapons are still in Incirlik. There is no way Washington is going to woo Armenia at the expense of the Ottoman Empire. So what exactly does Pashinyan have to offer?
Armenia is not ‘dependent on Russian protection absolutely’, that’s simpy false. It had more to lose before, with viable Artsakh gone, it has LESS need of Russia not more. The Turks are the only competent military in NATO? Don’t be ridiculous. Turkey is a major liability to NATO and the West, the main obstacle to ditching it is the likelihood that Russia would take NATO’s place, something which additionally damns Russia. However, America or others in the West are quite capable of ‘wooing’ Armenia (and Georgia) regardless of ‘Ottoman’ sensitivities, just as they ‘woo’ Greece for example, especially now that the main Turkic grievance of Artsakh is all but gone. You see, that was the Sauros-Washington trap all along, and Russia fell right into it.
Don’t tell us, you hate Turks – are you Death to Turks? You are as idiotic and dishonest – and cowardly – as him. Why don’t you go to N-K and “liberate” it for Armenians, you can have your very own Crusade! Be the hero! Don’t be shy, go for it!
Miserable worm, if you are an example of ‘Turks’, then they are hateful. It’s Islamist and Genocidal Turks that deserve hate, and rightly so.
I will work to liberate a lot more than just NK, scum.
LOL—Soros/CIA fell into Russia/Turk trap…ask kardashians
Dream on fool.
What exactly was the West supposed to do for Artsakh?
What they promised.
What’s that?
Military support, economic support, etc.
Evidence? Texts?
znHNpartner.yahoo.Com
your racism fails—why should Russia support Russophobes like Armenians—no anti-Russian protests in Azerbaijan, only armenia…….perhaps Soros’ NGO will teach u real politic so you can advise the Inuits in Greenland
Russia can support who it likes – and take the consequences, like it has more than once before. You idiots never learn.
You are a traitor to Armenia!
No, but you are a traitor to Russia, for sure.
How much do you get paid for being a Soros troll?
You are a traitor to Armenia!
Damn you are thick. Russia thinks it’s going to get anywhere with trolls like you on the loose? Shit.
I think you are going to be fired by Soros as your troll lies are of very poor quality.
Thick, and silly.
You are a traitor to Armenia making excuses for the traitorous Soros coup leaders.
Look how fast Nikol Pashinyan and the President of Armenia Armen Sarkissian are to send regular soldiers against Armenians but did not send 1 Armenian soldier to try to save NK.
Like I said this war was lost by Armenia before it started because the Soros leaders of Armenia are traitors and the biggest threat to the continued existence of Armenia.
The Artsakh Defense Army, losing cities and positions, “held” the Azerbaijani troops for a month, causing them significant harm. And this despite the fact that Ankara stood behind Baku, and Karabakh was left to fend for itself: the liberal Nikol Pashinyan not only destroyed the command and control of the troops, but also deprived Artsakh of the supply of ammunition.
They deprived Artsakh of the supply of ammunition
Tell me how Russia stop Pashinyan from sending regular Armenian soldiers and ammunition to Artsakh???????
And you support them!!
Traitor!!!!!!
Idiot, as I said, Russia also did none of those things until too late if at all.
And where did I say I support Pashinyan? Certainly I support Armenia against Turks.
Only traitors to Christendom don’t, or Muslims.
Which are you?
It is the support of the “west” that brought this about. I’d look to the west if I wanted to lose the rest too.
Greetings, just a heads up, I published Part 4 out of a 5 part series on SouthFront and this is the link: https://southfront.org/a-return-to-containment-kennan-and-the-responsible-use-of-power-part-4/
Appreciate any feedback SJM
Useless for … helping Armenia maintain its illegal occupation of another country, from which occupied land it ethnically cleansed all of the Azeris?
Fool, Russia isn’t even invading Donbass to “save” Russians from the “UkroNazis” its media liars lied so pathetically about for so many years, why would they go to war to help idiot Armenians keep land that’s not theirs and from which they ethnically cleansed the locals? Next you will demand that Russia invade Palestine and kick out Palestinians for the benefit of Russian Jews in ZioNazi Israel. lol, how sad you are.
It was Armenian land since several centuries BC! Turks ethnically cleansed and massacred Armenians first, and on a far greater scale. Russia did ‘invade’ Donbas, but prefers to keep the conflict ‘frozen’ than resolved, like here. Russia also intervened to save Assad and his Alawite regime, to control the whole country, but betrays Christian Armenians to Turko-jihad. I never made any such demand regarding Palestine nor ever would, so get lost fool!
No, it wasn’t, but in any event what happens in your imaginary history with your imaginary friends is of noone’s concern. The fact is that N-K is indisputably part of Azerbaijan, even Russia agreed to this many times, even Armenia FFS you buffoon.
It was your Nazi Armenians that ethnically cleansed all the Azeris from N-K. Nobody with a brain believes these “Armenian genocide” lies. Grow up and stop crying like a sissy.
Yes it was, it is well documented in classical and later sources. It was never willingly part of any established state of Azerbaijan, and has at least as much right to secede from it as eg South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Crimea, or Transnistria from their previous owners, all Russian ‘acquisitions’. The Armenian Genocide is well established and believed, in Russia also. Your disgusting lies are a good reason why Turkey and Azerbaijan should never have been allowed to win this, it only reinforces their denialist and Islamist evil and corruption.
Again displaying your vile and ugly hate, that’s all you Armenians have. You are the People of Hate. Oh .. and LIes.
Armenia: The Land of Hate and Lies. Has a nice ring, hmm? Like truth!
Delusional imbecile.
It was Armenian land since several centuries BC!
So what you lost it with stupid, corrupt, incompetent, cowardly, leaders like you.
Not me, far from it.
Russia is losing a lot under Putin btw.
when you return Indian, Mexican land u stole then play your uncivilized sand box retaliation insecurity game here…
I stole none of that.
You must be a zio troll.
Turning to the zio empire is why Armenia lost.
You are the zio troll! You just don’t know it, thick as you are.
Artsakh lost, against Israel-supported Azerbaijan, dope.
So rich, they sent weapons and troops to their ally Pashinyan and helped him win the war.
If the West is so rich, then why can’t you get a proper job?
Their ally? Armenia is Russia’s ally, by treaty.
What job could be more proper than opposing scum like you?
The job your Mom does, servicing soldiers and sailors.
No wonder she does though, she would do anything to get away from a wanker like yourself.
I suspect u r a money worshipping amerikan “the only God in amerika is money”. Malcolm X
You are an idiot, and wrong.
Whatever happened to Death to Turks? Was he one of the 800 killed? Or is he still playing Southfront keyboard warrior in his basement, screaming about his toughness, while his alleged Syrian terrorists rape and torture all the peaceful Armenian women around him to death out of pure savagery?
I think he changed his identity a couple of times. He’ll definitely be silent now.
blaming your incompetence and corruption on others is quite dignified
Mine? Dream on fool. It’s Russia that has proven incompetent and corrupt here, despite my advice, which its failing to follow will cost it bad.
Follow your advice!
Who’s going to win the 2.45 at Aintree then genius?
You are stupid enough to think a genius would waste time on that?
How much do you get for being a twat.
About the same as your Mom gets for one soldier probably.
You scum filth, my mother is long since deceased, and had more honor in one hair than you garbage have in your whole troll body. What a total piece of shit you are, fuck off before I make it a condition of very important matters for Russia also that you are punished for being such scum.
Your Mom died from over work, 2 battalions a day can do that to whores.
The only punishment you dole out, is to your hand, every day when you pull yourself you cretin.
Well you really are the bottom of the barrel. The shit-barrel that is. My suggestion is that your controllers shut you down asap, because if you keep it up, it will only cost their cause considerably in the end, guaranteed.
Cretin? Your life may depend upon this ‘cretin’, cretin. Literally.
Sure thing, little boy.
My life could never be harmed by a muppet like you, a POS who’s Mom whored for a living.
Literally.
Well it could, but that was not my point as such, rather that, while you are evidently an insignificant piece of stinking shit that is of no worth to anything, I am a unique genius whose insights across a range of critical fields including technical may well make make the difference in whether you live or die, quite simply. Along with all the other pathetic little troll-whores here and elsewhere. Given your low grade, I will try and structure it so that even if others are preserved as a result, you are not. Sounds doable.
Other than that, I know where you are from and what is your angle, and those responsible will also pay.
I won’t answer you again.
Is that a promise, muppet?
I know where you are, it’s a drug induced shithole.
certainly Lavrov will seek advice from an incompetent peasant with 60 markovka for brain cells
Then he won’t seek it from you that’s for sure. As for me, there is a lot more than this that he and Putin would be well advised to seek mine on.
You must wonder…why Pashinyan didnt use the SU-30 to shot down drones inside NK?…not needed to fly over NK…just flying over Armenia and using medium range missile R-77 cover all NK most of all that drones were flying at high alttitude to avoid SA-8/13/Manpads therefore they were an easy target for air to air missile!…AZ will never activate a non fly zone over Armenia and without drones AZ will never won an inch of NK!
Ask him! Maybe the Azer threat of nuclear terror against Metsamor and full-blown Turk intervention had something to do with it? And/or maybe Russian inaction and even pressure not to? After all, Russia proved more of an ally of the Turks in this than the Armenians.
You need to blame Russia because you support Pashinyan!…SU-30 from Armenia air space shot down all drones flying over NK….TB2 fly at 6500 mts out of the range of SA-8 while Harop can fly over 7000mts seeking targets….the proof is when AZ launched an attack vs Yerevan first days of the war using 4 drones…3 of them were shot down by AD 2 of them by Tor in Armenian air space close to NK….the second one by pechora near Yerevan..and the last one which was lost…was shot down by SU-30 in Northwestpart.
You need to blame Russia because you support Pashinyan!
No. I blame Russia for its own actions and mistakes.
What own actions?….Pashinyan just with a pair of SU-30 flying over Armenia( Not NK) close to Lachin could have shot down all drones flying above Shusha! and without drones AZ army is nothing!…whay he didnt send planes?…was he expected a siege of the capital to ask for western help like in Sarajevo?…maybe he knew that French Rafale jets deployed in Armenia to protect NK capital would means the expel of Russian troops and the boots of the pro western Pashinyan government!
What own actions? Letting the Turks attack to begin with, standing aside while they took position after position, and only stepping in when it was too late to save anything worth saving.
https://www.rferl.org/a/idle-threat-azerbaijani-hint-at-missile-strike-on-armenian-nuclear-plant-increases-tensions/30733672.html
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/turkey-threatens-armenia-direct-military-intervention-karabakh-war
Again, being the idiot Armenian you are, you see the world through your blinding hate.
Turkey had every right under international law to be in Azerbaijan – by the very same logic that Russia had the right to be in Syria. Capiche, you imbecile?
Also, for the 100th time, as your two brain cells cannot learn anything, Russia and Armenia – yes, and Armenia – both recognized N-K as part of Azerbaijan. So under what principle of international law does Russia stop Azerbaijan from reclaiming its own territory? Oh, you would just have Russia blatantly violate international law, with everything that entails (sanctions, loss of respect, etc.) when even Armenia is not willing to do it … when Armenia is not even willing to recognize N-K as a state or declare it part of Armenia?
LOL, what a deluded, hateful, low-IQ moron you are.
You idiot, for one thing I never justified Russia being in Syria. For another, under international law, South Ossetia and Abkhazia are part of Georgia, Crimea of Ukraine, Transnistria of Moldova, and north Cyprus of Cyprus. ‘International law’ is a pile of crap as is, but if you are going to refer to it, then at least be consistent. And, under ‘international law’, there is also the right of self-determination, and of restitution for genocide. Tiny Armenia is hardly at liberty to recognize/annex NK on its own.
Deluded, hateful, low-IQ moron – that’s you looking in the mirror.
I never justified Russia being in Syria
Oh, well, so you think that is wrong? Is Russia being in Armenia also wrong? What if Turkey invaded Armenia, would Russia coming to help Armenia be wrong? Hmmm, hypocritical bullshitter?
Crimea of Ukraine
Sorry, Charlie, you’re wrong. The international court ruled on that one, imbecile, and found no violation of international law.
at least be consistent
Is it my turn now to say I never said those were legal under international law? My point was Russia does not view Armenian occupation of N-K to be as critical to its national security as Georgia not joining NATO or Sevastopol becoming a NATO base. Russia like anyone else will violate international law but only for matters that are quite serious to their national security. N-K is not even serious to Armenia’s national security.
restitution for genocide
lol, here we go with the genocide fable again. But even if there were genocide in 1914, it wasn’t illegal under international law at that time – it became illegal in 1946 I believe.
And the right of self-determination does not apply to individuals, fools, only countries. Otherwise I could declare myself my own country – in fact there are people who make those claims, the “sovereign men”, are you one of them? Can you declare independence from your country and make your own?
No mirror, bud, just seeing your hateful mug.
You are full of shit, and stupid to boot. ‘The genocide fable’ – it’s far from a fable, and is well established and accepted around the world as a fact, and even by Turkish postwar tribunals and recent historians. And, restitution means not only for ‘genocide’ as later defined, but massacre and dispossession generally. And not just in the letter of international law but basic principle.
I never said the right of national self-determination applies to individuals, but it certainly applies to national groups, in principle, and to some degree in law, even without a state, that’s how many countries come to be recognized once they assert it. You think trashing straw man arguments makes you smart, or win? That’s just troll-crap.
I didn’t say Russia in Syria is right, or wrong. It’s probably some of both. As for Turkey in Azerbaijan, sure it’s with permission of the regime, but it’s also against a background of genocide and dispossession by Turks going back a thousand years, for purpose of war which cost thousands of lives. But my original point was not about the Turkish Turks so much, as the Azeris, Turks also, backed by the Turkish Turks, attacking a statelet set up originally with Russian help, which Russia therefore had some obligation to protect.
Sorry, Charlie, you’re wrong. The international court ruled on that one, imbecile, and found no violation of international law.
Oh yeah? It ruled that the Russian annexation is fine and dandy? Please give a link because a google search didn’t. It’s also clearly not accepted as such by much of the rest of the world.
Hateful? There’s not much more hateful than denying generally accepted and established Genocide, and that’s you, bud.
‘The genocide fable’ – it’s far from a fable, and is well established and accepted around the world as a fact, and even by Turkish postwar tribunals and recent historians.
Really, what Turkish tribunal? Please provide a citation.
And, restitution means not only for ‘genocide’ as later defined, but massacre and dispossession generally. And not just in the letter of international law but basic principle.
Well, let me advance a claim from Germany. It tried to get back the land that was stolen from it after WW I and given to Czechoslovakia and Poland, and especially in Poland, to protect ethnic Germans from the racist and vicious Poles. Look where that got them.
History is full of “genocide” and “dispossession”. Everyone has done it. You can’t unring the bell. Heck, I can argue, under your principles, that WW II was a genocide against Germany. And maybe it was, but I wouldn’t argue it. Because I’m not a crybaby.
I never said the right of national self-determination applies to individuals, but it certainly applies to national groups, in principle, and to some degree in law, even without a state, that’s how many countries come to be recognized once they assert it. You think trashing straw man arguments makes you smart, or win? That’s just troll-crap.
No straw man, you said “people” have a right to self-determination. I am a “people”. So I can claim that right. What is the definition of people? Now you claim “national groups”, “national” meaning “nation”. Yes, it means nations. There is no working definition of “people” apart from that under international law, and there is no possible way to ever craft one that is not ends-oriented or that anyone would agree to as a general principle, including you. E.g.: all the Azeris were ethnically cleansed from N-K. That was “genocide” and those “people” were not granted the right of self-determination, they should have been able to set up their own country inside N-K, right? Right?
It’s probably some of both. As for Turkey in Azerbaijan, sure it’s with permission of the regime, but it’s also against a background of genocide and dispossession by Turks going back a thousand years, for purpose of war which cost thousands of lives.
That’s irrelevant even if true.
Oh yeah? It ruled that the Russian annexation is fine and dandy? Please give a link because a google search didn’t. It’s also clearly not accepted as such by much of the rest of the world.
I am unable to find it too, seems I was the imbecile in this matter. It’s possible I conflated this with Kosovo but … don’t know, can’t back it up now.
Hateful? There’s not much more hateful than denying generally accepted and established Genocide, and that’s you, bud.
LOL, there’s nothing hateful about disagreeing on historical facts. You are following the lead of the ZioNazis who claim disbelieving their Holohoax fable is “anti-Semitic”. Such ad hominem attacks against freedom of conscience and speech are laughable. What’s hateful is your clear hate for Turks, I am not “surmising” it because you disagree with the Turkish version of history, but seeing you write very hateful things about Turks today.
Ok, you are just wasting my time with so much hair-splitting bullshit, in your delusion of being a superior mind, which you are certainly not. Read about the postwar Turkish trials, they are well documented in the literature. People as a collective is a synonym for national group, and far from all ‘Peoples’ or national groups have states as yet. There was no genocide against Azeris, though some massacre and ethnic cleansing, but on a far smaller scale than what was done by the Turks to the Armenians first. They already had a country, Azerbaijan, its borders are the question. But the Armenians have prior claim to their ancestral lands, though I said elsewhere that some return should be possible for Azeris, the question is how much, on what terms, and sovereignty, plus consideration of the wider issue/picture of the overall history and balance of wrongs. You’re not a crybaby? Except when it comes to Turks apparently. I don’t hate Turks per se, I have gotten on with some Turks, what I hate is neo-Ottomanism, ‘Grey Wolf’ style extremism, Islamism, and the genocidal aspects of Turkic and related Mongol history and the disgusting apologetics and outright denial for/of them, plus the arrogance of the likes of Erdogan and many Turks also in Europe and other Western/Christian countries who think they are God’s gift to the world and have the right to dominate, when really they are more of a curse to those societies overall, and have as a culture contributed very little positive to the world, rather mostly robbed and destroyed. Let any such go back to Turkey or other Turkic nations and leave us alone! Then we won’t have so much cause to complain or resent. Quoting facts and giving standard links is not hate, it’s just truth.
And the Holohoax fable? Oh dear. Not only is a ‘Holocaust’ amply documented and attested, even if some details are still open to debate, I had relatives who lived through it btw, but its totally accepted and upheld not only by Western nations BUT ALSO RUSSIA. Denying both it and the Turkish genocides may seem normal in your circles, but it’s really not normal outside them, and that’s most of the world.
At least you admit you were wrong about Crimea, there is apparently some case, but it’s not yet decided as far as is evident. The general position in the world is that the annexation was not legal, even China didn’t recognize it as as far as I know.
your delusion of being a superior mind, which you are certainly not.
Oh, but I must certainly do, it’s really quite indisputable from all objective evidence. In fact numerous standard deviations above “average”. But it’s not really relevant to our discussion, so ….
Read about the postwar Turkish trials, they are well documented in the literature.
So, you have no support. Link, dude, I can’t find what you are talking about.
There was no genocide against Azeris, though some massacre and ethnic cleansing, but on a far smaller scale than what was done by the Turks to the Armenians first.
Azeris are not Turks. And even if they were, it doesn’t matter, because nobody is responsible for the sins of anyone else.
They already had a country, Azerbaijan, its borders are the question.
Sure, but so what?
But the Armenians have prior claim to their ancestral lands
And nobody, not even Baku, is forcing Armenians to leave N-K. If Baku starts ethnically cleansing N-K like the Armenians did, you would have a claim of something.
plus consideration of the wider issue/picture of the overall history and balance of wrongs.
Yes, everyone seeking that elusive justice that exists nowhere. But, international law is not based on real or perceived historical grievances. Indeed every group in the world has grievances but we are not changing every border over them.
Except when it comes to Turks apparently.
I am not particularly fond of Turks, but I don’t hate them (or any group) – there are of course certain factions I oppose, but it is not because they are Turks, Arabs, Armenains or Russians, but because of their ideology.
what I hate is neo-Ottomanism,
Let’s assume that is what Erdogan is, he has substantial opposition at home. Why do you blame Turks, instead of Turkey? Note also, a huge number of Turks live outside Turkey entirely. It is like blaming all Jews for the crimes of Israel (well, frankly, the vast majority of Jews support those crimes, but not all – with Turks, it is not so uniform at all).
‘Grey Wolf’ style extremism, Islamism, and the genocidal aspects of Turkic and related Mongol history and the disgusting apologetics and outright denial for/of them
Europe’s extremism, global genocides, slave-trading, and not just denial of everything but continuation of imperial and colonial policies, even if repackaged from “civilizing the savages” to “bringing democracy the savages”, is far more disgusting, and, indeed, Europe is far more involved currently in subjugating other countries and dropping bombs on them. Why single out Turkey?
who think they are God’s gift to the world and have the right to dominate
In fact Europeans are vastly more guilty of this than Turks. Look at all the Muslim lands Europeans are currently occupying … starting with Israel. Nobody believes in “Divine Right” to subjugate the world like Europeans, and nobody has as sordid a history of imperialism and occupation as Europe, again, which is ongoing to this day. Sure, Turkey is not as subjugated as it was after losing WW I, it has regained some of its influence, but, again, it pales in comparison to the acts of the likes of UK and France. For example, Turkey is lambasted for involvement with its neighbors Azerbaijan, Syria and Iraq – but yet UK, US and France are even more involved in all those places, and they are halfway across the planet.
Let any such go back to Turkey or other Turkic nations and leave us alone! Then we won’t have so much cause to complain or resent.
Right, because Europeans just mind their own business, uhh-huhhh. Right. LOL, I feel like I am in another dimension of reality from you. Why not compare what European Chrisitans have done over the last, say, 100 years vs. Turkey, hmmm?
And the Holohoax fable? Oh dear. Not only is a ‘Holocaust’ amply documented and attested
Actually, it isn’t at all. It’s total BS. Yes, there were labor camps. Yes, there were Einsatzgruppen that were harsh to Jews, especially after the Allies started mass murdering German civilians by the 100,000s, but there were no gas chambers, there were no death camps, and the number of casualties of Jews was far less than the number of casualties of Germans in that war.
Denying both it and the Turkish genocides may seem normal in your circles, but it’s really not normal outside them, and that’s most of the world.Actually most people don’t believe that garbage, but sure, the Rulers ttry to shove their lies down everyone’s throats. And the “educated” ones – the ones who did well at university – are the ones who excel at regurgitating the rulers’ lies – that’s what makes them successful at university.
At least you admit you were wrong about Crimea, there is apparently some case, but it’s not yet decided as far as is evident. The general position in the world is that the annexation was not legal, even China didn’t recognize it as as far as I know.
The annexation is not the issue, the issue was the secession – to the extent the secession was valid, Crimea was free to join Russia, or France, or Armenia. It chose Russia. The issue is whether the secession vote was valid. Again, under international law I don’t see how you attack it, as it’s a question of Ukrainian law (and, yes, secession violated the Ukrainian Constitution, but Kosovo’s secession also violated Serbian law). Again, I am not sure I was wrong, I remember something very clearly, I just can’t find it now.
There is a lot of nonsense and falsehood in your answer, but the way you structure it makes it not worth my while to reply to at length, it’s just too cumbersome for any point. Just briefly a couple of things – the trials:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosecution_of_Ottoman_war_criminals
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_courts-martial_of_1919–1920
Re the Holocaust, not only is it accepted practically worldwide, including Russia as I said, which would surely have denied or at least questioned it by now were it false, but in the main it is well established by scholarship and evidence. I have studied both the mainstream and ‘Revisionist’ literatures in some considerable depth, likely rather more than you, and see no good reason to seriously doubt that it happened more or less as ‘alleged’, even if, the actual toll was a bit less than 6 million (Jews at least), and it was more improvised than some admit. It would be preferable that it were false, but the ‘Revionists’ have failed to credibly dent the main case, considered objectively and thoroughly, which was in fact in keeping with the sentiments and actions of the main Nazi decision makers. And gas chambers are actually proven, and still extant, eg in the killing facilities for disabled within Germany. There certainly were death-camps, to which vastly greater numbers were shipped than ever came out alive. The Einsatzgruppen btw started well before mass bombing casualties, in fact early versions were already in Poland from 1939 on, and the main ones in Russia from mid-1941, while the first really destructive air raids were from 1942 (or really 1943) on. I could go on, but if you are already convinced regardless of copious counter-evidence there’s little point. But imagining that CUP and Nazi bigwigs were basically traduced innocents is naive in the extreme. They were vicious mass killers, along with quite a few others in history, the Mongols taking the top prize.
Just briefly a couple of things – the trials:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wi…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wi…
LOL, those aren’t Turkic trials, those are kangaroo trials by the conquerors. Just like Nuremberg. Yes, it is obvious, the loser in a war is always at fault, according to the winner, isn’t it?
Re the Holocaust, not only is it accepted practically worldwide, including Russia as I said, which would surely have denied or at least questioned it by now were it false
Even if everyone believes the Earth is flat, that does not mean the Earth is flat. Do you agree with that proposition? With modern technology it’s not hard for a few liars to fool the world, in fact it’s very easy. So please, spare me the “but the sheep say” speech.
As to Russia, Gorbachev played his part. It was always claimed that the so-called Auschwitz Death Books, in Soviet custoday, would prove the German’s monstrosity because it documented all of the deaths by name, date and cause. This anticipation in light of Soviet propaganda, which was used as the evidence at Nuremberg (well, US and UK propaganda was also abundantly present). Well, it turns out when Gorby released the books, they showed only a few ten thousands deaths, most of natural causes (camps were very large), but also of starvation (particularly at war’s end, when Allies were mercilessly bombing Germany’s infrastructure, including its transportation networks for food delivery) and disease (ironically, Zyklon B is a pesticide used to kill lice, which cause TB, which was the primary cause of unnatrual death in the camps).
likely rather more than you
I have yet to meet a person who spent any serious time reading Revisionist literature who still believed the Holohoax. Perhaps you are exceptionally prone to see genocide everywhere.
And gas chambers are actually proven, and still extant
Really? Where? What camp? How many killed?
There certainly were death-camps, to which vastly greater numbers were shipped than ever came out alive.
Is that right? Did you count them going in and out? No? Who did then? Oh, right, those Auschwitz Death Books …
early versions were already in Poland from 1939 on
Yes but at the early times they were only fighting what today the “West” calls “unlawful combatants”. That gradually expanded to cover trouble makers generally, and, frankly, Jews are trouble makers, esp. the Communist ones which dominated the East.
copious counter-evidence
What counter-evidence? Your repetition of the lies your rulers made you repeat throughout school? Good parrot, I’m sure you did great at university.
They were vicious mass killers, along with quite a few others in history, the Mongols taking the top prize.
Nah, top prize goes easily to the Western hereditary oligarchs. The House of Windsor alone has probably murdered about 700 million people, by my estimate, dating back centuries. And the Westerners worship them. It’s always easy to ape your rulers’ “education” and accuse everyone else of being evil, while never looking at your own acts. It is the life of the successful parrot.
Christ what a bunch of ignorant crap masquerading as superior brilliance! The Turk trials in Turkey were actually run by the Turks, read up on it in detail, your reply barely gave time for more than a glance. Not like Nuremberg, which was actually run by the Allies in totally defeated and fully occupied Germany. The Auschwitz death-books only list deaths of registered prisoners, the ones tattoed and selected for work who died at work. Ie a small minority. When Russia backs your case there might be something to talk about, but it never will.
Gassings were part of this for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aktion_T4
There are also small extant gas-chambers in a couple of other camps in Germany, maybe Dachau and Sachsenhausen, not certain of which offhand though. There are detailed rail and other records of the numbers going in and out. The early Einsatzgruppen were targeting mainly Polish intelligentsia and some Jews, non-combatants. I gave you some counter-evidence, there’s vastly more but you have to go beyond revisionist literature to get to it.
I am no great fan of the House of Windsor, but 700 million? That is utterly ludicrous, the entire British Empire had less people than that at its peak, and the vast majority of them were not murdered. What’s more, the HoW (actually only called that since WW1) had little real executive control anyway.
Sorry but you are coming across as really whacky, even demented now.
The Turk trials in Turkey were actually run by the Turks
OK, I’ll bite. Here, this is your link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosecution_of_Ottoman_war_criminals . Point me please to the place it says that Turks determined there was an “Armenian genocide”. (You can use your other link too, I’m not demanding.)
When Russia backs your case there might be something to talk about, but it never will.
Interesting, just a day ago Russia was treacherous and scheming, and now it is the Oracle of Truth? My how times change. Why should Russia subject itself to a total war of the ZioNazi West by revealing truth? How does it benefit them and at what cost? Putin is a politician, not a professor. And in any case Putin is very close to Jews, and it may very well be he is as brainwashed about it as everyone else.
In any case, the International Committee of the Red Cross had full access to each and every camp during each and every day of the camps. In 1947 (yes, long after war’s end), they published a multi-volume treatise about the camps. There is no mention of gassings or death camps or anything – they are labor camps. For this ICRC has been accused of gross anti-Semitism, and they have been under tremendous pressure, to this day, to “revise” their description. To their credit, they have refused to do so – because their description is accurate.
Gassings were part of this for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wi…
So, there are some 70,000 alleged victims there. I have not studied this case, it does not involve the Holohoax at all. I am sure it is a lie like all the other gassing accusations I have studied but perhaps by some mircale for once they are telling the truth, I don’t know, and I don’t care, but most importantly it doesn’t advance your Holohoax argument one iota.
There are detailed rail and other records of the numbers going in and out
Really? Where can I see this data? I’d love a link, truly, please, where is this data?
I gave you some counter-evidence
You making a claim about something you did not witness is not “evidence”, for Christ’s sake. Have some decency! “targeting mainly Polish intelligentsia” – of course, it was the Nazis after all that were responsible for Katyn! It must be so, because you wrote it!
the entire British Empire had less people than that at its peak
Why does someone have to be a subject of the House of War to be killed by it? Au contraire, so many were killed that weren’t in the Empire. And I also count its “black” ops, like Bolshevism, Maoism, and its true roles in WW I and WW II (as the instigator), but that is for high school, you are still in first grade. In university you learn how the Windsors in fact still rule not only UK but most of the world.
Sorry but you are coming across as really whacky, even demented now.
So it is when someone is not on the same plantation as you. I think for myself and seek truth – I don’t just repeat what the rulers instruct me to think, which is largely a pack of lies that serve their interests. You should try it. It’s liberating.
You are a moron I guess you are a traitor as well and want Armenia to be destroyed
“Russia blew it badly”? How so?
It seems to me that the Armenians, that wanted closer ties with the US and EU, are the ones that seriously miscalculated, or “blew it” as you say.
In the end, as I predicted six weeks ago, it was Russia that came, not the US and EU. I see your excuses for the West’s inaction listed below, “a highly contested US election and resurging [sic] pandemic”, but even absent those excuses the US and the EU were never going to come.
No, it was Russia that would come. But still you’re not happy. And why? Because you think Russia should send her sons and daughters to fight and die for others, in this case the Armenians? Sorry to disappoint, but I think its time for you to realize this is not how the real world works. Nobody, not the Russians, not the Americans, not the Europeans, was or is going to fight and die in the Caucasus except to defend or to further their own interests.
Artsakh is not Armenia, state-wise. It’s Artsakh that got screwed primarily, despite not being a ‘Soros puppet’. All you Russkis here like to gloss over that. Russia played a key role in that, despite having responsibility for its security for various reasons. The Western ‘excuses’ were not absent, and there was no Western treaty to come, or role to protect Artsakh, unlike Russia. Russia came too late, after having clearly stood aside, deliberately, as many Russ-trolls here have attested. Russia did not have to send sons and daughters to die, it firstly could have sent deterrent signals, and then at least aided with tech to deny Azero-Turkic air superiority, and other supplies. I know how the ‘real world works’, and also how it doesn’t work. How it ‘works’ in the sense you mean is both highly immoral, and self-defeating, and ‘interests’ are not just as you or even the Kremlin defines them. Russia wants a certain picture of this to be presented and swallowed, the problem is, it doesn’t stand up to serious scrutiny, and both it and the methods used to enforce it ‘in the real world’ and online are also self-harming and self-defeating in reality, especially the bigger picture and higher level. Maybe something can still be salvaged, if my advice is followed, but as things stand, Russia looks very much like having colluded with some real Turko-Islamist thugs and bandits to shaft Christian Artsakh, to get back at the Yerevan regime which it doesn’t like, and only stepped in in such a way as to create dependence on it whilst appeasing the Turkic thugs. It may well be that the Yerevan regime sucks, but letting Artsakh be screwed to get back at it is not just, and whilst simpletons may be fooled that it is, it’s not simpletons, or even me, that Russia needs to be worried about. Thug-politics may seem like ‘realism’, but actually it’s not in the end. Russia has a long history attesting to that. I don’t single out Russia btw, I oppose such things generally. But really, to really matter in the world, Russia needs to do better, because the ‘gains’ are less than the overall/eventual price. I am actually trying to help Russia, which I want to see strong and healthy, but really, and by right methods, which are far more important and ultimately effective than Russian power-elites and their trolls seem to grasp. I definitely don’t like a lot of what the West is and does, unfortunately Russia plays into the hands of those responsible too often, like some sort of caricature of itself. It’s a big part of the reason why Ukraine broke away, and some others past and future.
” Internally displaced persons and refugees will return to Nagorno-Karabakh and the surrounding areas under the supervision of the UN High Commissioner for Refugees. ” Does this include the million or so Azeris pushed out in the 90’s ?
Yes.
I wonder if some of them will go back to the areas under Armenian control ? The demographic shift would make for an interesting situation.
Arskah is now unviable, there will be no Armenians left before long, Islamist Turks and other jihadis have won in the Kavkaz, with Russian help.
Armenian incompetence and corruption much worse than I suspected. Good that conflict is finished
Politrics by sociopaths that killed over 30.000 people, while stupid crowds believe in waving flags….. Sad
hah, Azeris shot down a russian mi24 attack chopper deep inside Armenia and they just apologize and that’s it?! No pay back? lol Putin never dare to attack no one who shoots down his troops.
But after the Heli attack suddenly a huge explosion was heard in Baku…smoke column was seen in Sumgayit….and later an agreement was signed!…
2 lives for peace. Seems like a good deal. No other ruler on earth has managed the same for centuries.
Would you give your brothers for 2 lives as you just saying it like that, just for peace, go tell it to the mothers and daughters and sons of the dead pilots you are idiot you don’t thing for no one, you thing war is a game. None of you have seen war here, well some do but most of you that are gaming on this are just typing on your keyboards and talk shit.
Why is Azerbaijan to be punished if some soldier made a mistake or committed a crime? If they punish those who did the act, and compensate Russia, for what possible reason would Russia make war, you sick, pathetic, evil, murderous barbarian?
Russia punishes Christians, but lets Turks off the hook, even rewards them by giving them far more Christian Armenian land than they captured or deserved. If Putin had retaliated you would be spitting venom to defend it also.
Russia hasn’t punished anyone.
It’s obvious why everyone hates Armenians. You are such vile, hateful, disgusting creatures – every single one of you I run into. Good thing you lost, you ungrateful, hateful, lowlife losers.
Russia has certainly punished Armenia. I’m not Armenian. But your disgusting hate-speech against them shows why Russia made such a bad mistake to let you win.
I’m not Azeri, you lying Armenian. There was no punishment, you FUCKING IDIOT – Russia ALWAYS recognized N-K as part of Azerbaijan, as did Armenia.
It’s impossible to reason with braindead idiots like you. Good luck with your lies, hate and idiocy, it’s all you got.
I didn’t say you were, liar. There was certainly punishment – regardless of formal recognition, Arsakh was regarded as Armenian land by Armenians, and Russia had in fact aided in its 1990’s reclamation. Now it’s handed most of it ‘back’ to Azerbaijan, rendering the remnant unviable, along with a massive boost to Azero-Turkic confidence and corruption. But Russia itself will lose badly on account of it, not only Armenia, but Georgia, Ukraine, and Belarus, at least. In fact, Russia itself will crumble in the end, just as Muslims and Globalists wanted all along.
Russia is the FUCKING braindead IDIOT here, the Turks have played it like a fiddle.
yet u backward simpletons live in debt while Russia possesses huge reserves…and Armenia, Georgia, Ukraine quasi mafia failed states owned by Soros Inc.
quasi mafia failed state
That’s Russia, imbecile.
quite crying u Russophobic antisemitic racist–u should be begging the amerikans to save u—or Soros
Russophobic- that’s the Turks and other Muslims who kill Russians.
antisemitic racist – apart from thse just mentioned, it’s also Russ trolls like ‘John Brown’.
You idiot, attack me all you like, Russia is much worse off for going against my advice.
I am not the murderer here the Azeris are, who died you evil idiot who? Russian pilots died, who said to go to war barbarians are the Azeris and their Ottomans bitches.
u lie CIA blind eye—on border…Azeris will pay huge compensation
There is no compensation for the 2 Dead Russian Pilots, go tell that to their mothers.
The guy career is over anyway.
Jail to head of state hasn’t been a successful carrer path for several politicians. Saddam, Morsi, Pashinyan, etc..
Probably he will run in USA like that Georgian guy.
Is that where the tie chewer is now?
“If the Pashinyan clique somehow remains in power and succeeds in promoting its agenda, the withdrawal of Russian peacekeepers from the conflict zone and the full loss of Karabkah for the Armenians will become inevitable within the next 5 years.”
That sounds like blackmail to me. Putin’s making a habit of arriving late to all the parties he’s invited to, he saved Syria too but first he let Isis get a foot in the door, which then gave the US and Turkey an excuse to do the same thing, but then he saved Syria in the end, or at least saved what’s left of it after the US and Turkey divided the north between them, and now it looks like he’s doing the same thing here. If it’s worth saving now it should’ve been worth saving from the start, so now Putin only gets to save what’s left of Nagorno-Karabakh, so just a rinse and repeat of Syria. The Muslim brotherhood and Russia divided up Syria and now they’re dividing up Azerbaijan/Nagorno-Karabakh too.
Note that Putin intervened in Syria to preserve essentially the whole country intact under Alawite Assad, yet here he intervenes to hand most of Christian Artsakh to the Turks. I mean, what goes on in that guy’s brain?
Who knows, perhaps old age is taking its toll, – but sadly that doesn’t excuse the rest of the Russian Government.
Especially Lavrov, whose father was Armenian.
The lesson of the Artsahk war is that don’t mess with the Turks, or they’ll send their flying snowmobiles after you. Unless you’re Iran. They evidently have effect anti aircraft systems against these types of threats.
Only stupid author would put that title. It is only the beginning of throwing satanic turkish scum out of Christian Lands.
The good thing is that Sushi has become an empty city because the Armenians spread out genocide propaganda if Artsakh / Armenians did not flee from the Azeris.
Bloody idiots Armenians…
Turks have been killing, raping, and robbing Armenians and other Christians for a thousand years (see below for links to just the last century or so).
By rights, ALL of Artsakh, plus Nakhitchevan and Ararat AT LEAST should go to Armenia as even MINIMAL compensation. They were all Armenian land (whether fully independent or under Perso-Roman suzerainty) for over a thousand years before the Turks turned up, copiously established and documented in history and scholarship. The Turko-Azeri claim, based on previous dispossession by force and massacre of the Armenians, is not only countered by that key fact, but by the rights of the Armenians of Artsakh to self-determination also under international and humanitarian law, by the right of Artsakh and Armenia to a viable and secure territory, especially in face of ongoing Turkic-Islamist threats and genocide-denial, and by the fact that Azerbaijan as a nation never held lasting sovereignty over them EXCEPT as part of other empires, most recently the Russian and Soviet ones for almost all of the last two centuries. Therefore, if the Azeri claim is ‘valid’, then so is the prior longstanding claim of the Russians to rule Azerbaijan itself, along with eg Kars and Sarikamis in Turkey, and Ukraine, and conversely, if the Armenian ‘separatist’ claim to Artsakh is invalid, then so are the separatist claims of Russian and Turkish ‘annexations’ like South Ossetia, Abkhazia, Crimea, Transnistria, and northern Cyprus. The fact is that this attack on Artsakh is a dirty piece of Satanic skulduggery and ‘might is right’ thuggery cooked up by crooks and thieves, and a continuation of the thouand-year long Turkic aggression against and dispossession of the Armenians and other Christians, disgracefully aided and abetted by outside ‘Judeo-Christian’ powers who never seem to learn their lesson: that whilst such evil may “succeed” and “profit” in the short term, it plants the Devil-seed and sows the Divine Destinic wind for even greater retributive evils down the track, which history provides myriad examples of, and which they most assuredly will draw upon themselves as a result of this evil upon evils.
ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamidian_massacres
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adana_massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khaibalikend_massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shusha_massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_genocide
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_genocide
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumgait_pogrom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baku_pogrom
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maraga_massacre
Up voting yourself is a sure sign you are a muppet, and a wanker.
No scum, it’s a way of keeping the comment further up the pile, and if it’s so terrible, then why does disqus allow it?
It’s not DISQUS’s place to prevent you from making an arse of yourself.
Still have Mammy issues then, you’d have been better off an orphan.