The total damage suffered by the Turkish Army in recent clashes in al-Bab amounted to $18-19 million.
A document, allegedly showing losses of Turkish armored vehicles in recent clashes in al-Bab, has been published online (source).
According to the paper the Turkish Armed Forces have lost ten Leopard 2A4 tanks, one M60T tank, two armored combat vehicles, one tactical wheeled armored vehicle and one improved armored personal carrier. The majority of Turkish military hardware losses were caused by anti-tank guided missiles.
Available photo and video evidence of clashes between Turkish forces and ISIS terrorists suggest that the data provided in the document is at least close to the real numbers.
According to estimates, the total damage, suffered by the Turkish Army, is between $18,000,000 and $19,000,000, as the price of each Leopard 2A4 tank is about $1,442,953 (without taking into account the upgrade, made by the Turkish Armed Forces), the price of the M60T is $4,000,000, and the Cobra tactical wheeled armored vehicle costs about $150,000.
Photo: reddit.com
Photo: reddit.com
An M-60 should not cost 4,000,000, while a Leopard is listed at appox 1,500,000, the Leopard is a newer generation tank than M60.
Turkey signed $688 million USD deal to get 168 M60T main battle tanks. 688000000/168 = 4095238
Dang they got ripped off. The M60T is just a medium tank right? Before the Russians made the Armata 14 Tank, I was under the impression that the Leopard was the best Tank in the world just five years ago. The M60T has never won any tank games. And I thought even the Merkava Tank was suppose to be better then the M60T.
The Merkava replaced M-60. The M-60 was the primary battle tank for the US in the 60’s and 70’s, until M-1 started to be produced in large numbers and replaced the M-60.
Yes, the Leopard 2 A7, which is a “3rd Generation Advanced” MBT, whilst the Leopard 2 A4 is pretty average. Armata T-14 is the ONLY 5th Generation MBT
Black Panther K2?
The Sabra is an extensively upgraded M60 Patton tank developed by Israel Military Industries.[1] MkII version of this upgrade package was used in one of Turkish Army’s modernization programs. The Sabra is known as the M60T in Turkish service.[2]
What we need to consider is that Israel had many M-60’s in its tank fleet in the 70’s and early 80’s, they remodernized some of their tanks and sold the technology to Turkey who also had a large fleet of old M-60’s. Whether it is an old M-60 or a Sabra version, I cannot tell. Spending 4 million on an upgrade sounds a bit superfluous, you could buy a new Leopard of M1 brand new, unless there were reasons we are not aware of.
Tank on the picture above have easy recognisable additional turet armor, which makes it Sabra. Same goes for all other pictures/videos I have seen.
Brand new Leopard II’s are like 6-8 million each, but Turkey’s were surplus stock from Germany. Probably brought at a discount.
Seems the T-90 turned out to be the only tank of its generation capable of whitstanding a direct hit from an ATGM.
It depends a lot on type of missile, and point of impact. All latest generation MBTs have very thick frontal armor, and not so good rear/side. Although Leopard 2A4 is older version, I still haven’t seen them destroyed from the front. It looks like they prefere showing their side to the enemy.
“…It looks like they prefere showing their side to the enemy…”
Urban combat – they don’t have a choice any more. Thick frontal armor is a relic of the cold war when the biggest threat to a tank was an enemy tank in front of it. Side armor helps for older generation ATGMs, but doesn’t help with newer ATGMs that attack from overhead (through the top of the tank). I think Leopards have fairly good top armor, so they may hold up better than most. Unfortunately, the head-choppers mostly (only?) have older-generation direct-attack ATGMs. All they have to do is wait for the right opportunity/positioning to hit a Leopard or Sabra in the side or back. No idea why the Turks have not started adding slat armor to the sides of Leopards. It’s only marginally effective, but at least its something.
They aren’t really engaged in urban warfare yet. You may have seen video of two Leos on open space showing their sides, and geting hit one after another from long range. I haven’t heard of any top-attack missiles being used in Syria, but I higly doubt that any tank present there would stand a chance against it.
The T-90 could, theoretically, since it has active protection systems that would deviate or destroy the missile before it hits the armor.
True, although I haven’t seen any of those systems actually working in Syria. Also, there are differences in trajectory and guidance between systems (TOW-2B vs. Javelin), which affects effectiveness of counteremeasures.
There is militant filmed video on You Tube of a militant launched TOW that spears off at sharp angle, upwards, just metres in front of a T-90, apparently due to the active IR defense system at work.
The only one I saw is this one Product * Shtora * on the BMP-3 at firing range https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-7KUMbJeC4 And the same video reuploaded under differen names SYRIA T 90 Vs Anti tank missile https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNCRgWIhxJw Т-90 в Сирии отклонил невидимой шторой ракету ПТУРа https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovpXf3QZ4YE Работа “Шторы” на Т90 в Сирии https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq3kxFZIc8s
To my knowledge ISIS don’t have any top-attack ATGM’s like the Javelin or TOW-2B, they only have direct-attack TOW-2A, Kornet etc.
The T-90A has proved it’s armour capabilities from the front, but testera is right about the Leopard II not taking any frontal hits (as far as we can tell). Therefore I suspect the Leopard II’s failing ‘may’ be due to the foolhardy approach of the Turkish Army, which is heavily depleted of competent officers from the recent post-coup purges.
damn! those turks fight like the orcs from the lord of the rings!!
mortar attack takes out a 2a4 wtf
I wonder how many Turkish troops are engaging ISIS relative to their proxy rebel force? The Turks are most likely operating the heavy equipment and the fact that at least two were captured shows that they are engaging directly in the fight. My real curiosity is in how they are performing, especially after all of the post coup purges.
Not very well, apparently. I’d go as far as say they couldn’t beat the SAA in a straight fight either, unless they hugely outnumbered them.
They didnt lost them, because they want to gave them these weapons. but only in a half-hidden way. So what?
So true Upo…How right you are!!
It’s confusing as ISIS drove away in the APC in first released video, but there are newer photos released from ISIS of at least one Leopard with turret blown up. The APC and lighter armored vehicles are useful to ISIS, but Leopard may not be much use as requires a logistics and supply chain.
Turkish Air Forces destroyed Al-Bab Hospital so ISIS 18 soldiers dead.Turkish Army captured El-Bab Hospital and city.
Don’t forget.
The Turkish Land Forces were cautiously attacked because civilians and buildings did not want to be hurt.
Video Link http://www.ahaber.com.tr/webtv/gundem/18-deasli-boyle-olduruldu
Streets fights are costly,in men casualties,house to house you get your ass blow away by sniper fire .best way tank support blow buildings down civilian loses ? Yes very high that’s war
Original list is quite detailed. It also gives vehicle ID# and unit involved. Most where from 1ST battalion, 2ND armored brigade (1/2). It appears to be of vehicles put out of action (lost, damaged, etc). ISUS must have been waiting for TU/FSA to take hospital area to launch counter attack. Appears that Al Bab will be tough battle. The SAA are quite happy about this, I’m sure. Erdogan should be worried about this info. leaking into Turkey via the internet. The list may have been a leak out of Turkey or Turkish army.
How short is our memory? as we seem to have completely forgotten that it was actually Turkey that had relationship with ISIS (oil trade, medical and health services, weaponry supply, etc…). How easily did Turkey take over land from ISIS when they started that Euphrates shield operation, how ISIS was able to by stealth occupy Palmyra again? It seems like the more they get attacked (by Iraq, SDF, SAA, USA, Russia) the more chaos they can make, and this does not appear (yet again) to be a coincidence. Someone is still pretending to be fighting ISIS but instead is aiding and abbeting them and the biggest question reminds “is change of leadership in US going to change this”?
It appears that Turkish/ISUS relationship has changed over time. They are now killing each other over Al Bab. ISUS vacated other areas north because they had no choice. They sent their reserves to Palmyra, and this may be their downfall. ISUS is over extended right now. Check out news about Kurds advancing north of Raqqa.
bloody export models.. The Turks had better develop some new tactics
There’s a complete lack of tactical understanding from the Turkish Army here. They are road bound and trying to employ conventional mechanised tactics against an unconventional force. They should lighten up , employ faster gun trucks and a lot more mortars , artillery and automatic weapons against Isis. I don’t see a any employment of their helicopter forces either. They should close in and employ massive fire power. Instead of offering Isis targets they should become asymmetric in their tactical thinking and draw the ambushers into ambushes. Use drones , surveillance planes and NATO satellites to get realtime intelligence and employ firepower to keep the Isis shitpots off balance 24/7. No use being reluctant, go full on here ,or go home. It’s the only language Isis shitpots understand.
So one can buy 3 leo2 for 1 M60 ? Looks strange.
This may sound ridiculous but i think is plausible. What if the backers of both sides ordered their underlings to do just a ‘firecracker’ show, and leave some ‘donations’ behind? Don’t both sides have a common enemy aka Axis of Resistance to keep in check. Things may not be what it seems.