Russian Crew Takes Iconic T-34 Battle Tank For Ride

Well you ca say it. Because some people use “T34” for all variants and others use the specific names like 34/85 etc. And the german tanks didn’t evolve in the same sense the T34 did. For example the pz3 did not evolve into the pz4. Both were used at the same time, the pz3 was intended for a more anti-tank oriented role while the pz4 was used as an infantry support. The Tiger came before the Panther even tho I know you know it and you just enumerated them numericaly. And the King Tiger was not named Panzer 7. It was still either a 6 too (like the Tiger) or it was named “Panzerkampfwagen Tiger ausf B”

In France Panzer 3 and 4 were used as armored spearheads independently from infantry to penetrate French defensive lines south of Maginot lines and maneuvre north to cut off BEF and French forces. The infantry cleaned up the cut off allied forces. The same tactic was used in Russia very effectively in 1941, in North Africa as well. PZ 3 was initially equipped with a 37MM gun, later replaced by a 50Mm high velocity gun in an antitank role.

The introduction of the Tiger, Panther or Tiger 2 were necessitated because the Germans needed tanks to have high kill ratios against the Russian tanks. If the upgraded PZ4 could have a kill ratio of 1:1 or maybe a little higher, the Panther was expected to deliver a 3:1 kill ratio while the Tiger 7-10:1 kill ratio. These tanks did not have the time to be properly tested and did not enter the war in significant numbers at once, to have a significant impact.

The higher kill ratio could have veen achieved with Stugd and Jagdpanzers too. Laying ambushed and cooperating with the infantry to mop up the soviet infantry after the tanks are destroyed. The Tiger was at first required because of the soviet heavy tanks (mainly the KV1) and in small part to the T34 that posed in 41 challanges to the Pz3 and 4 that were available at that time. The Panther was a good design and I think that if the germans were to drop the Tiger all together, they would have had more succes. There was no need for the Tiger after the Panther came, the long 75 could penetrate all the tanks that the 88 could, but it was cheaper than the 88 which was used as an anti aircraft gun so the supply was limited. And at the end of the day what use is a tank that cannot move because the germans had cronic problems with fuel that started in 41 and then got worse and the war progressed. And again the King Tiger isn’t called the Panzer 7. The Pz7 was the heavy tank named “Lowe” which was never built

Germans did not have a fuel shortage in 1941, their shortages became insurmountable after they lost the Ploiesti oil fields in 1944, and their synthetic oil plants were destroyed as well. In 1941 if tanks moved faster and penetrated significant enemy territory, they had to wait for logistics to catch up with them.

And in 42 they had to wait again. And they moved so agressively thowards Baku and the other oil fields because? Because they needed the oil and to cut the soviets supply. But it is clear from the fact the whole 42 summer operation period was dedicated to taking the oil fields. So that means that they had problems, which they never adressed. And even in 41 they had some problems as you said with the logistics but they were not having big oil reserves either. The romanian oil fields were not offering enough oil to fully supply the tanks but it was better than nothing

Yes they wanted to cut off the oil supplies supporting the Soviet effort, Germans got entangled in the Stalingrad snare, a few fire control points along Volga would have blown up oil barges going north. The Stugs you were commenting about would have been useful in the hands of the Romanian armies guarding the flanks of the German 6th army, maybe 30-50 Stugs per division would have stopped the Russian counterattack and the Germans would have held their line. The discussion about oil, when discussing the matter with someone else that supported the British narrative, iI researched and came to the conclusion that it was the long logistical lines that impeded the flow of supplies. I am looking for it now, I will send it to you when I find it.

You can compare them. I say it very wrong 😅 I meant that you need to take into account the overall vision each side had with their tanks. And in that, as formidable as the Tiger was it was produced in very limited numbers and I would say that it did not have such a huge impact in the war when it needed to have (42 and Op Citadel). And most of the time we see tigers used in defence, which doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be as effective in offesive operations but when you defend you tend to suffer less (especially the germans which had good defensive tactics). But for me the tiger is not something that was worth for the OKH. Too unreliable, too expensive and the Pz4 F2 and onwards were more than enough to deal with most tanks the germans would encounter. Then the Panther came which was a few times cheaper and basically had the same firepower with the longer 75mm

In 1942 things were going well for the Germans their tanks did fine without large number of heavy tanks, they needed to take Caucasus and have control of Volga river at several points, instead of getting bogged down in Stalingrad.

Operation Citadel would have been more effective if launched in May, it would have pierced the russian lines for sure, eliminating the bulge and pushing east for an outflanking movement. Instead it was launched 2 months later, time the Russians used to fortify the bulge. Of course, tanks…..Tigers included had difficulty in advancing much against such deep defense on a narrow front, so they assumed more defensive position. Tigers did well in open spaces, on a firm ground using their gun effectively killing any tank from 2000 meters. A Tiger battalion in conjunction with other forces could have been used to attack to punch a hole in enemy defensive lines that were not heavily defended.

Of course on the western front since Allies had control of the skies, the tigers were not as effective.

The thing is the soviets knew where to prepare the defences (in Kursk) because the Allies decoded yhe german codes and told them that there will be an offensive there. So they already knew. I don’t really thing that Citadel would have succeded because the front wad already stoped in the North and the soviet reserves were not yet fully deployed in battle I think. So Citadel would have becomed another battle where the germans destroy and kill a few times more soviets than vice versa but in the end they would have to retreat because of the lack of oil and Operation Husky. They didn’t even break all the defencive lines the soviets had in place and most german tanks that were damaged or destroyed were substantially more hard to replace

They did not have to fight at Kursk, my take on the matter was for them to wait, consolidate their position and absorb as many Tigers and Panthers that were coming off the assembly lines, and allow Russian forces to make a move.

The third crew member in the turret actually changed the entire way the tank fought because the commander now had situational awareness instead of having to focus on operating the weapon. The T34 was optimised for close packed fighting and mass armour charges. The T34/85 could operate much more independently.