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Developed in the 70s, put into service in the 80s, the MiG-31 fighter jet will soon be replaced by its successor.
The purpose of the MiG-31 is the detection and destruction of ballistic and cruise missiles, various aircraft, ranging from the low-flying UAVs to low-orbit satellites. Although this interceptor was developed over 40 years ago and is a 4th generation combat aircraft, its weapons are allegedly capable of striking the American 5th generation fighter, the F-35. The fighter jet can shoot down aerial targets at speeds of up to 5M, which can be detected at a distance of 280 kilometres, thanks to its phased array, which no other plane had at the beginning of this century. The interceptor carries between 5 and 9 tons of payload and its arsenal includes various types of munitions of which, long-range missiles, capable of striking on their own, without external target designation. The MiG-31 may be a flying command post, the update “I” may spot satellites with a maximum weight of up to 160kg at a height of up to 600Km.
At the beginning of 2017, the vice-president of Russian United Aircraft Corporation Sergei Korotkov told journalists that work on the MiG-41 fighter continues. According to him, it will be a new generation machine, which will replace the MiG-31 interceptor-fighter jet. Korotkov also mentioned that designers of the Mikoyan Special Design Bureau as well as representatives of other defence enterprises are taking part in the creation of the new machine. Earlier, the commander of the Russian Aerospace Defence Forces Viktor Bondarev was informed on the Advanced Aviation Complex, Long-Range Interception (AAC-LI) project of the MiG-41. He stated that the development of the new fighter interceptor jet is actively being pursued under scientific research, and in 2017 it is expected to start the proto-type. The commander of the Russian Air Force told reporters that the introduction of the aircraft into service is planned for 2025. So far, almost nothing is know about this machine, we do not know any of its characteristics, nor the details of the external appearance of this aircraft. There are only sketches of the prototypes available online. We can only speculate on the range and speed characteristics.
In order to conceptualise the machine, one must understand what tasks the new fighter jet will perform and its weapons system.
Most likely the aircraft will be tested by 2020; meanwhile the MiG-31 is still successfully coping with its tasks and will not become obsolete before the early 2030s. The new fighter jet is developed separately from the AAC-LI T-50 (Su-57), is not its competitor and will fulfil completely different tasks. The high manoeuvrability or stealth tactical interceptor for the MiG-41 is not exactly needed, but ultra-high speed and altitude, essentially new weapons and upgraded on-board radar are just what it needs to destroy ultra-fast targets at high altitudes.
If parallels are drawn with the MiG-31, the appearance of the fighter will change to greater stealth. Armaments may be placed inside. The cannon will most likely be discarded, being ineffective for this aircraft.
One of the major threats in the foreseeable future for Russia may be the military hypersonic aircraft, whose development is currently actively underway in the United States. The Boeing X-51 hypersonic aircraft project, developed for the “Prompt Global Strike” strategy, can be used as an example. The speed, according to the factsheet, can reach 6 to 7 thousand km per hour. Such weapons systems are capable of being a strategic threat, as they do not necessarily need a nuclear warhead. This type of missiles can hit enemy targets due to their tremendous kinetic energy. The enormous flight speed makes the interception of such targets quite a daunting task. The increasing bellicose rhetoric and unilateral hostile actions from the White House against Russia makes one think that this type of missiles can be adopted as a weapon and the Russian military-industrial complex will have something to answer it with.
Currently in Russia the new missile RVV-BD is being developed on the base of the air-to-air long-range R-37, with the dual mode solid propellant rocket propulsion system (solid propellant rocket engine) with a range of up to 300 km. The distinctive features are the active homing head, the high-precision inertial control system using laser gyros, a line of radio control that allows the aircraft to refine the target coordinates with the goal to defeat the enemy from maximum range, significantly improving the parameters of the missile when working with large loads of up to 8 unites.
Besides this missile, the KS-172 long-range air-to-air missiles are developed. The basis of the missile was taken from the well-proven 9M83 missile of the ground-based air defence system S-300V. Although the speed of the targeted objectives for this rocket is 4 km/s, its advantage is its long range, up to 400km and the handling of up to 12 units of targets. It is precisely these missiles that the MiG-41 can get if it is adopted. However, it should be understood that when the time comes of introducing them into service, basically new weapons might appear, ranging from fundamentally new air-to-air missile class to laser combat systems that can destroy an aircraft or satellite.
In the middle 80s, the USSR was developing and experimenting with modification “D” of the Mig-31 fighter, armed with a complex of anti-satellite weapons 79M6 “Contact”, but it was not adopted, due to the thawing of world tensions and Moscow reached an agreement with Washington to terminate the programme. The United States dreaded the Russian new developments in the system so that in exchange for the cancellation of the MiG-31D, they only tested and did not put into service their own similar system, the ASM-135 ASAT (Air Launched Anti-Satellite). Given the fact that the United States can waive earlier commitments, the Russian Federation may resume the development of this type of weapons based on new technological and fundamental basis.
There is the issue of the “piloting” of the aircraft. In other words, will this fighter jet be controlled by the pilot or be an unmanned aerial vehicle. Given the overload that one experiences at such speeds, the second option seems much more plausible. The problem is that Russia, even in Soviet times, is behind in the field of UAVs. So far, Russia is unable to create even a modern attack drone, and to make a remote-controlled interceptor is a much more difficult task.
The growing tensions in the world, another arms race are forcing the world powers to adopt more and more new systems and weapons systems. The MiG design office has extensive experience in the development of interceptors. Combat aircraft, developed by them, hold world records in height, speed and range.
Mig41= just another fantasy weapon that will never exist other than in CGI. Russia cant even afford to complete development of the SU 57. All the talk of future militaey projects like the Mig41 and Storm supercarrier is just wishful thinking with a touch of propaganda.
my words
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mean nothing…
hahaha ya.
Kinda sounds like you’re butt hurt over Syria. Take a couple reality pills and don’t call, ever.
you are stupid
Not one for intellectual arguments are you?
if you dont see alone ruca´s stupidity, i can not halp ypu. hint: what has common syria with mig-41?
Nothing in common, but when dealing with troll fuckwitz like exposito, one needs to fight fire with fire – hint: what has common Storm carrier with mig-41?
it has! both are planes of russian military industry.
Storm is an aircraft carrier… but wait, maybe its a FLYING aircraft carrier… Oh, those crafty devious Ruskies…
you are really stupid. there is talk about planned weapons. ALL CATEGORIES, youdumb!
ty jebly kokote )) ses na smich))
No, he is not. Its taken the fantasy top as the real war, real as a russian computergame and forgeeting that russians so far has lost 6 gold medals from WM in Sotje for doping.
The other day it was same thing for a Turk here. Their new tank was the best in the world, but the main parts are from South Korea and Germany and they only have 4 prototypes.
So their overwheliming fight capasity is based on the German Leopard and will be for many years. Leopards are those some PKK`s and You never know should fight against.
Same fellow could see american weapons and the americans are giving PKK and SDF weapons and not Turks.
If You look up the most used weapons they are are mainly american ones and not Turkish ones. So why should weapons to them and ISIS not come from Turkey.
You have the same for their drones. Most important parts are imported, so how can they be that much Turkish.
So those announcements are totally out of realisme like telling You support USA and especially CIA by using computers, cell phones and internet. But witout them, we were nothing or at least much lower.
We also hear SAA are very good. But are they. have they ever met any other army – Yes they have. Has anything changed since then. No it has not.
You compare seize with quality. I dont see Assads as any winners of everything. There are no winners in kind of wars like this. 450.000 dead ones so far are winners. 8-10 mio refugees are winners. SDF are winners. FSA are winners, Qaida ?
The only winners should be reforms making peace. The real buts are the people, which dont see, whats comming out from the behind of Baathistas being manipulated to, thats the only solution by strict censurship of the worst kind.
Russia hasn’t lost medals for doping as NO EVIDENCE has been submitted. They have been banned only due to the claims of Rodchenko and the arm-twisting of Western assets. The banned athletes have been tested many times with zero positives, even when tested in European WADA-accredited centers, and the IOC refuses to discuss the nature of the alleged transgressions, let alone offer any proof to the public.
The entire McLaren report is nothing but a political hit-job.
Thats hardly true.
Russia in those matters only can make my oppinions milder, if they take most of the FIFA leaders in the world for Gulag replacement.
Are you the reason for his butt hurt?
More like updating his win95 above.
I just think the pictures from there cant be too many moskitos there any more, and it therefore could be a kind of after speed time.
Ignore this idiot. He’s a certifiable nutjob and a Russophobe of the 1st order. Its a great pity that this Yankistani whackjob has found his way here to SF….
oh well, at least Jens will have a fellow knob-gobbler to play with.
to say the truth is not russophobia. but if you are sooooo much clever, tell as the name of 1-2-3 worldwide sold russian cars. or medicaments.
cars? mediacaments? pfftt… Russia is changing the face of the geopolitical world and you’re talking about motor cars and pharma?
I guess if I was you and your anti-Russian hopes and dreams were collapsing, I’d probably want to seek solace in the trivial as well…
russia is doing nothing. they have no money for radar in cuba. do you know, what do russians? intoxicatethe world with raduoactive materials released from their plants. lake 2-3 months ago. and the “correct” russians lied, lied, that no, not we were the bad guys. finally during this weekend rosatom told the truth. so, this is your russia!
If you are referring to the Ruthenium detection, its a big wank over nothing. Levels are miniscule and well below safety levels.
AFAIK, Rosatom has not made any such statements regarding their facilities being the source. Post a link if you have one.
i am reffering about primitivity of russians: lie, lie, lie.
No money for a radar in Cuba? Why ever would Russia want a radar in Cuba???? They are building a nation-wide full coverage network of OTH radars (Voronezh) with 7 built so far, so they clearly have plenty of money for strategic radar installations.
rassia had, you mickeymouse! and now is rosted, because there is no money for it.
Russia is really a third world country with a large stockpile of nuclear weapons and becoming increasingly isolated from the civilized western world. Russia doesnt produce anything of real commercial economic value. 50% of its revenue comes from oil and it has a declining population horrible medical care and a real bad demographic problem and on top of that an economy no bigger than Italys.
Oil is only 14% of Russian GDP, and only 38% of Federal budget. Russian tax rate is 10% flat, and they CHOOSE to tax oil & gas instead of workers and businesses.
Declining population? Not anymore, in fact their demographics are better than most Euro-peon vassal states.
Economy no bigger than Italy? ROFL!!!! The usual boiler-plate of the Russophobe circle-jerker….. GDP as measured by PPP is far more accurate, and on this score, Russias economy is as big as Germany. Admittedly, its not as big as China or US or Japan, but its enough for them to maintain hard power sufficient to wipe your fetid warmonger LGBT faggotry state of the face of doGs green Earth :-)
your economical numbers are false.
and yes, declining population. until 2014 rowed, now again declines. putin was not able to change. also today the immigration into russia is from asia, mainly moslems.
Russias economy is no where near that of Germany. Not even close. I suggest you cease your Russian delusions of grandeur. Russias economy (the size of Italy) is dragging at best while Germany has seen the greatest growth in Europe. Germany is Europes industrial powerhouse while Russia is just another corrupt petro state ( think Venezuela) that doesnt produce any goods that are competitive in the world market.
Another fool who just doesn’t get it… but lets assume you are right (a feckless nobody living in his moms basement with his dads gay porn collection) and all of those economists are wrong and PPP is fundamentally unsound… errr, no it just doesn’t work does it? Its another indicator that you’re a clown who talks out of his hat.
You’re such a schmuck. Fuck off back to your hidey-hole like National Interest and you can flog your tiny wiener all night long to endless anti-Russkie agitprop and Murican Exceptionalism until yer eyes glaze over and you pass out from testicular dehydration.
Russia is a dieying country that is desperately trying to assert itself through assymatric means like cyber hacking etc to make up for its failed kleptocratic and corrupt government policies. But such will eventually fail and Russia will collapse for a second time.
I just hope when such trinkets of Russian nationalism like the failed and inferior SU57 are cancelled you will not go into a suicidal state as it seems that you are too emotionally invested in them to make up for your miserable existence.
Don’t worry about my “miserable existence”!!! I can’t tell you how much fun I am having watching Russia defaet Murican/Saudi regime-change efforts in Syria or Iranian power grow in the ME…. Or how Murica is losing the plot and tearing itself into two irreconcilable armed camps over Trumps victory and the Harridans attempts to tarnish his win with the contrived BS of so-called Russia-gate…. Or how Trump is driving a wedge between Murica and its Euro-peon vassals over heir attempts to scupper Nord Stream 2 and other Russian O&G co-operations, thereby earning the enmity of EU governments over US arrogance for interfering in their energy security affairs… Or how the US is losing international respect over its childish attempts to torpedo the JCPOA, even though the IAEA has again confirmed that Iran is sticking to the deal and ALL OTHER SIGNATORIES are clear in their agreement to continue. Or how the Petro-dollar is on the slide and will be likely be replaced by the gold-backed Yuan…
ROFL! there is so much good stuff going down at teh minute, and its only getting better!
I am an expat in Russia, and you are completely full of shit as well as something that came out of Solomon. You are a lier.
Yup, exposito is just a silly little Murican hater-troll who can’t stop puking his hatred and embarrassing himself with tired, outdated stereotypes he’s picked up from Murican corporate media and the feckless talking-heads of gubbermint retards like Nikki Haley.
He has his uses however as a walking talking billboard for Murican arrogance and inbred stupidity, and as an abject reminder that no-one will miss them when the murican Empire finally collapses into a stinking pile of decayed exceptionalism…
you are farting frog, nothing else. you were never able tu argue with real data. only bark on others.
Suck it up sunshine. All you bring to the table are lies and deception. Just like the Israel.
please, i give you place for xour arguments, why is russia big, innovative land. you can put here the loooooomg list of russian innovations in the last 25 years.
so, i am waiting….
I laugh at paid Russian trolls pretending to be disgruntled Americans with American sounding names. Yep keep up the good work Boris. You fool no one.
seriously, look, CIA sent this troll to kill any discussions on SF. As if that czech jew wasnt enough, along some projoohadi friends of theirs. I think you should call ukrainian SBU and make a troll center. They work basically for free considering their salaries. I seriously wonder how many years you are poisoning all the forums with your hate, “exposito”, I also understand you are incapable of telling the truth because, u consider truth to be what is right now convenient. You have no use for truth, because you love to lie in order to manipulate and hurt peoples feelings. Such a vampire. Without it you cant function, because youre no good. You are a psychopath, a hypocrite, or if you wish, a narcissist. Serial nonrepentant liar. But you ignore truth and stick to your whirling lies.
A Ukranian brother and comrade once told me that Russians were like primitive monkeys. Now I now he was right! Long live the Ukranian freedom loving peoples who have rightly thrown out the oppressive Russian insects from their sacred land!
A Ukranian brother and comrade… some dude you sucked your weanie in the Donbass trenches?
Thanks for displaying the congenital idiocy of the Ukropi Banderite half-breed and their demented Murican water-carriers…
now i get it! you are a neo-nazi.
Russia is not a dying country and will not collapse a second time ( it is the wet dreams and wishful thinking of neocons) it is actually thriving in contrast to the western sanctions, having significant Eurasian economic ties and trade. SUK 57 is significantly superior to F22, Mig 31 in tandem with Suk 35 can annihilate F22. US MIC produces expensive crap that will be inferior on any battlefield, Russia can procure more superior weapons at a significantly lower price.
The rest of your post is nonsense.
hahaha, the idiot jesus compares non existing plane with real ones :DDDDDDDDDD
The real idiot is the one who refuses to consider reality, there are 10 Suk 57, and Mig 31 has been around for decades.
Yes it appears that the Kremlin propaganda machine has succeeded in brainwashing your puny brain. Either that or you are as dumb as a door nail.
The one with a puny brain is the one that cannot carry on an intelligent dialogue and as a result he resorts to name calling; What is the matter? Your brain circuitry overloaded and cannot compute anything coherent?
SU57 a plane that even the Indian airforce says is a piece of junk annhilate the mighty and undefeatable F22? Hahahaha. I think you are very funny. I suggest joining the Russian circus as a clown. Id bet they will pay you more than what the Kremlin is paying you as a Putin trollbot.
Who cares what the Indian Air Force says, they will get the export version of Suk 57, the same way with Suk 30 MKI, the same way with Yakhont missile….etc. Bring the public stats for the F22 and we’ll compare them with Suk 57, and the fact that F22 operational status is in the 40’s percent, with limited sortie capability. The missiles carried by F22 have questionable BVR capabilities, in a WVR a SUK 35 can shoot down the “invisible” plane, the US MIC has ballyhooed so much. For your information I am a US citizen who likes to point the truth in a convoluted fake media environment. The truth shall set you free. Jesus Christ said, I am the way, the truth and the life.
Sure Boris. We believe you are a US citizen. Is it starting to get cold in St Petersburgh? I hope they left you a good supply of cheap vodka to keep you warm in that stuffy office.
As I type this it is 47 degrees Fahrenheit in Bloomfield Michigan. You have no intelligent answer comparing the Russian Oniks missile to the Indian Brahmos missile? Or Suk 30 MKI to the Russian Suk 30? Sounds like technical details are out of your league, you specialize in BS.
Sure Boris. Dont worry. We believe you.
Indian airforce has already said they want out of the failed PAK FA project which it considers to be a pile of junk. They wont be buying the SU57. The Indians are wising up to Russian scams. And the SU57 is clearly one of them.
Nope, not true, but then again, fuckwitz like you care zip for truth.
Your narrative is full of lies, Indian Suk 30 MKI smoked the F15 and the Typhoon in US and European aerial combat exercises. Suk 57 is far more capable aircraft than Suk 30 MKI.
India doesnt trust Russia anymore. Thats why India has turned to the US to supply it with high tech weapons. In fact the US is now Indias number 1 supplier of arms in dollar volume having displaced Russia which is a major embarrasment. As for the SU30MKI it is an even bigger pile of shit than the SU57.Some 7 Indian pilots have been killed in the last year and a half from the plane and it is considered the most unreliable and trouble prone jet in its inventory. Rather than continue buying inferior quality Russian combat aircraft India has turned to the West. Russia has been left out of Indias fighter competition for good reason. Western jets are far superior. In fact the Indian airforce has asked the Modi government to withdraw from the FGFA/PAK FA project having concluded that the jet lacks 5th generation technology which is a strict Indian requirement.
What exactly has India bought or plans to purchase from the US? Syrian war theatre proved what constitutes junk. The F22 was nowhere to be seen; you think Indians are going to buy F35 which is a plain sitting turkey ready to be pulverized by 30MM cannon fire? Check out what happened to the invisible F35 against on old S200 in Syria.
What has India bought?
1. 24 AH64E Apache helicopters 2. 36 CH47 Chinook helicopters 3. 8 C17 Globemaster transport planes.
4. 14 CH130J transport planes
5. 7 P8 Neptune ASW aircraft.
Thats just the beginning. More multi billion dollar defense deals with the US are forthcoming.
Only a puny brain imbecile like yourself believes the fairy tale that an Isreali F35 was hit by an S200. Hahaha. Do you also believe in the Tooth Fairy? Not even RT and Sputnik Russias best known propaganda news outlets reported the made up story.
Except for the Apache the equipment is for support purposes, it is puny brain like you to believe the F35 was hit by a bird, since Israeli air incursions into Lebanon have come to almost a stop. Regardless of what you claim the Indian Air Force has to say, F35 is a turkey, without aerodynamic capabilities, unable to turn to more than 6G and questionable BVR weaponry. Suk 35 would defeat F35 on one on one, if you pitted 100 Suk 35 against 100 F35, the glaring deficiencies of F35 would become even more noticeable; on a sortie availability basis Suk 35 would always outnumber F35 at least 2:1 basis. If F22 and F35 are so great, why did not US according to neocon wishes impose a no fly zone in Syria? Because they would have embarrassed themselves against the Russian A2AD defenses deployed in Syria. Your BS walks out of the door, actual facts stay and reign supreme.
Hajaha. Typical Russian clown. The only facts you rely on are those created from fake news stories and wild conspiracy theories. Like I said before even RT news and Sputnikk do not believe the fantasy that an F35 was damaged by an S200.
Continue to believe in fantasies if it makes you feel better.
As for the F35 it would detect fire its missiles and destroy the clunky high RCS SU35 before the pilot even knew what hit him. You cant compare an old 4th platform like the SU35 with a vastly superior 5th gen combat aircraft that has full stealth features and advanced avionics like the F35.
An SU35 would be like a defenseless baby seal against the F35.
FYI F22s have been flying over Syria with impunity for over a year. Pilots report that the S400 is totally useless and unable to track the F22. Of course the Russian government wont admit it.
Sputnik nor RT are going to elaborate on an embrasment, it is not the Russian style, Israel did not have a picture of the damaged plane, and stated it would be out indefinitely. And Israel has not continued any air incursions into Lebanon. A puny and brainwashed mind could not add up these realities and come with a viable answer.
As far as your BS of F22 overflying Russian defenses, it shows your ignorance and lack of understanding how stealth has become rather obsolete. Your other delusion about Suk 35 being a victim of F35 has to be brutally dispelled; F35 carries 4 BVR missiles internally, the missiles are not that great and Suk 35 would detect these missiles in time and outmaneuver them. Even F35 turning its radar on would telegraph the Suk of its presence. Suk 35 carries an assortment of 12 missiles. The launch energy imparted by F35 is minute, therefore the missile’s effectiveness would be reduced accordingly. At this point the F35 could either stand and face the approaching Suk or turn around and run away. If the F35 engages in WVR, it is a dead turkey, since it can not turn well and is not maneuverable enough.
The baby seal in WVR combat would be the F35, otherwise it would fire its missiles from +100 Kms away and then run away.
The Block3F version of the F35 will allow to carry 6 aim120Ds internally. Lockheed martin has already shown prototype of its CUDA missile concept that would allow the F35 to carry 12 such missiles internally. And it has just been revealed that the US has been secretly developing a new missile to replace the aim120 notionally called the Long Range Engagement Weapon (LREW) that will almost double the range of the aim120 and will use AI technology to make it impossible to jam.
The F35 still has many improvements in the pipeline including a new 50000 ib class engine as a derivative of the F135 which is the most powerful jet engine ever installed on a fighter and will substantially improve the F35s kinematic performance.
FYI the F35A will have full 9g capability with the Block 3F software update meaning it will have the dogfighting capability of an F16 with far greater acceleration.
Also slated to be developed for the F35 is a first ever operational laser cannon in the 150kw range on a fighter to destroy incoming missiles and aircraft.
You know nothing about the F35 other than what you hear from those whacky conspiracy theory and propaganda websites that provide false information.
The true capabilities of the F35 are classified and only known by its users.
The SU35 and any other Russian jet would be cannon fodder to the F35. Russia can only rely on inferior 4th generation technology because it is incapable of producing a true 5th gen combat aircraft like the F22/35.
The reason that trolls like you are paid to spread false information like the fantasy of the F35 being struck by an S200 is simply because Russia is terrified of the F35 knowing it would annhilate its airforce. The objective of Russia was to create so much negative publicity about the F35 that it would be cancelled by the US and other countries.
But that effort has totally failed.
The F35 is more popular then ever. More countries are lining up to buy it. Saudi Arabia and the UAE are fhe first Arab countries that have requested permission to buy the F35. A total of 12 countries are on contract. Germany just a few days ago said that the F35 will replace the Tornado.
If the F35 is a lemon as you Russian trolls are trying to convince us then all these countries would not be lining up to buy it.
The funny thing is that the SU57 has been rejected by every country that Russia has offered it to for the obvious reason that it is a piece of junk.
Laser cannon… get the F outta here. retard fan-boi regurgitating LM agitprop pof the garbage puked by Russophobe jocks on F16.net.
Let the ignorant child embarrass himself with nary an original thought bouncing around in his empty cranium.
Yep. Lasers are coming to the F35 probably around 2022.
Meanwhile poor Russia will still be tinkering with its fake stealth SU57 trying to make it work. LMFAO.
Yeah, keep it up schmuck. Just like Hitler thought his Tiger II and Panthers and Elefants would carve a path through the Soviet salient at Kursk, so to will Muricunts discover that their feverish self-serving propaganda is a heap of bunkum.
F35 is a crap heap, the CUDA missiles you are harping about, are anti air missiles designed to shoot down long range Russian and Chinese air to air missiles. This shows you that that stealth factor on F35 is a straw man, since it needs CUDA missiles to defend itself against air to air missiles. The F35 currently carries internally 4 amraam missiles, or 4-6,000 lbs of guided ordonance . It can carry Sidewinders and assorted guided munitions under its wings, eliminating the stealth factor. The rest of the claims by Lockheed Marietta most likely are BS, trying to apply expensive band aids to a looser design.
The bottom line is, the Russian radar capabilities can track stealth aircraft and their formidable air defenses would have the F22 and F35 for lunch. This was proven in Syria, where US Air Force ineptitude in establishing a no fly zone clearly proved their unwillingness to risk the stealth hoax against some real antiaircraft defenses. F35 performance in aerodynamics, armament, EW, range and speed are inferior to Suk 35, F35 program has been a cash cow for Lockheed, its effectiveness agains generation +4 aircraft is rather dubious at best; it its data linkages are jammed, F35 is a dead turkey.
Oh pleasssseee. Give me a fucking break with your no fly zone. Thats just another fantasy created by the propaganda department by the Kremlin and idiots like you always take the bait.
American F22s and surveillance drones have been flying over all parts of Syria without any issues. F22 pilots have been flying undetected for months. Forget about S400 S500 S600 S700 or any other fake Russian missiles that claim to be able to track the F22. Its all fantasy. They are totally useless. Maybe 20 years ago but this is 2017 and the US owns the skies over Syria or anywhere else and there is nothing Russia can do about it
Just like it couldnt do anything when 59 Tomahawks slammed down on that Syrian airbase and destroyed 22 Syrian jets on the ground. The only response we got from Russia was Putin complaining like a woman on her period for a couple of days.
If stealth is obsolete, why does Japan, Russia and China all have stealth programs?
You hit da nail there Jesus. F-35 wunderbird, detected, tracked and engaged with modernised 1960s era SAM complex… Birdstrike indeed… pfffttt….
Morons like exposito really believe that an F-22 has a RCS of only 0.0001m3, but doesn’t understand that that is only from the front, and at the one specific wavelength where the stealth shaping and RAM works at its optimum, ie teh stealth “sweet-spot”. This is not representative of the all-aspect stealth performance over the full spectrum, and in any case, the bird lights up like a christmas tree in IR when cruising supersonic at height where its skin temp glows bright in the high thin air.
Great comment.
Keep reading. the Suk-57 is the wrong way to put it. It is the Su-57, but suk is more accurate. We might see one or two more prototypes. You are very incorrect about the Russian economy. It is in the toilet, and it won’t change unless they can get $100 plus dollars a barrel. The military spending will have to stop soon.
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russias-su-57-stealth-fighter-destined-fail-23595
The fact is that Russia doesn’t have the technology. They don’t have the industrial base either. The alloys are one major problem. Plus their engines have never approached the west for reliability. Look at many photos of Russian war birds. They always have a trail of smoke coming out of the engines. It is a petro chemical state that will see the end of the large demand for oil in our lifetime. Dubai gets this, and so does Russia. I love Russian people and culture, and they are a resourceful bunch, but stealth and robust engines take money.
Yeah no. . . The su57 stealth characteristics are garbage compared to American technology. The su57 would never see the F-22 coming.
Give me facts supporting your BS. How come F22’s are not being used in Syria to challenge Russian Air Force.
if it is dying, why is US/NATO trying to kill Russia?
no argue, ruskie?
Truth hurts huh?
Pulling your wiener until its all red and blistered hurts more…
You sound kinda muffled.
Civilized world? Take your shekels and go pay for prostitute… like netanyahoo’s idiot son. Civilized was the way of Ummar or Salladin.
Check this thread again. I got a couple replies :D
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Storm is a no-go as Russia doesn’t need 100kT carriers. Su57 is proceeding nicely thank you as the first examples of the Izdeliye 30 engine are ready for first flight tests.
The only wishful thinking around here is your moronic dismissal of Russian miltech and MIC capabilities.
su pak is only in phase of development. until 2020 will not have real engine. and already in 2014 had to be in service.
BS Shlomo… 1st flight with Iz 30 will probably happen next year.
Service in 2014? WTF are you smoking?
with not correct engines.
check the plans in 2005
2005? I wonder how much the F-35 was projected to cost back then, or how many would be in service in 2017….
Cutting edge projects are always behind schedule and over budget. Why should Su57 be different?
They already have 10 units undergoing evaluations. They currently have a working engine, your narrative is plain BS.
these 10 are only test models with not own engines. and everybody knows, the heart of plane is the engine. so, shitty bastard planes will be.
Suk 57 has engines they fly, have you seen the air show for 2017? A more efficient engine will be available shortly. Your facts are sheer BS, and you keep insisting being a mitocan.
sure, air parade, but not combat ready.
check the russian sources, moron!
Like the F-35 you mean?
“””Pre-production T-50 and initial production batches of the Su-57 will use interim engines, a pair of NPO Saturn izdeliye 117, or AL-41F1.[92] Closely related to the Saturn 117S engine used by the Su-35S, the 117 engine is a highly improved and uprated variant of the AL-31 that powers the Su-27 family of aircraft. “””
Suk 35 engines are not good enough? Suk 35 with proper support would shoot down the F22. You choose to remain a mitocan.
Shitty bastard? Why are you talking about yourself?
Really? Go ask the Indian airforce what they think of the faiied SU57 or google SU57 ALREADY PROVEN TO BE A FAILURE.
The fact of the matter is Russia lacks the technical and industrial capacity to produce a true 5th generatilon combat aircraft. Only the US and perhaps a very countries such as Japan possess the techology. The SU 57 is just an evolved SU 35 made to look.like a 5th gen stealth jet but it is not. Thats why the IAF has recommended termiation of its participation in the FGFA/PAK fa project citing among other things its poor stealth qualities and inferior radar and engines and that it doesnt measure up to the American F22 or F35 .Google INDIAN AIRFORCE DISSAPOINTED IN PAK FA. The SU57 is just another propaganda tool that will end up like the defunct and failed Mig 1.44.
Meanwhile the US is already well under way in developing its 6th gen fighter the PCA for the 2030s.
You’re a class act idiot, always have been, and nothing has changed…
Failed Su57? Chortle, snicker… hehe… The wobble-heads are playing their usual game of complaining endlessly with the aim of extracting a better deal for FGFA, yet you are utterly ignorant that its a tactic… complain about stealth (yet they don’t have the tech data).. complain about needing 2 seats not 1…. complain about engines, even though the Izd 30 is still under development… pfftt… Wobbleheads complain so that they can sweeten the deal and play less $, get more tech transfer, and make more % in India. They are not going to pull out of FGFA cuz without Russia they don’t have a snowballs chance in hell of getting 5G aircraft, and they know it.
BTW the Su57 is NOTHING like a Su27/30/35 derivative, and claiming this demonstrates your appalling ignorance.
US 6th gen fighter? When the F-35 is such an appalling shitheap? yeah, I can tell you own Lockeed Martin stock…
he is right. russia has f-117 since the yugoslavian incident. and still is not able to copy the technology. the chinese plane is also not really stealth. americans with f-35 have the 4th actibe plane of 5th generation. russia can nly dream about stealth bombers. these tu´s are nothing for american defense system.
russia is declining massively. china modernizes the whole industry, russia is not able to produce nothimg modern. in best case in some segments few pieces. no mass production.
and the indian cooperation was really disaster. russians took indian money and gave nothing. they betrayed indians. therefore torned beck india to russia. not zionosts, the stupid kremlin politicians are the reason.
You’re a certifiable fuckwit.. I’ve never heard such insensate blather…. Russia cannot copy F-117 tech????
Russians took Indian money for FGFA? Some news for you Russophobe jew trash, the wobble-heads haven’t paid yet. Su-57 development is funded by Russian gov, and its not subsidised by New Dehli. Betrayed Indians? How? By negotiating the split of costs and agreeing to sweeteners to get the feckless smudgie bastards on board?
Pfft.. you’re a fecking retard.
sure, russia can not do. if would be able, already were done.
why would it be already done? Izd 30 engine is still under development… and India hasn’t handed over any development capital for their downgraded version.
Who cares about Indian complaints, they always want something for nothing, Russia will not share the crux of its technology with India, what India gets is still deadly, just compare the Suk30MKI to F-15’s. US Developing 6th generation fighter? They embarrassed themselves with the F-35 and they will develop the PCA fighter? Right, just like developing hypersonic weapons and other “cutting edge weaponry” that will become a black hole in the US budget. As US dollar is going to loose the reserve currency status, careless budgets are going to be a thing of the past.
Who cares about Indian complaints, they always want something for nothing, Russia will not share the crux of its technology with India
you little russian thief, BUT in the contract was the sharing of technology. without indian money the whole factory pruducing sukhhoys would collapse.
LOL, how much money did the Indians contribute that the Russians could not pay for themselves? You share technology up to a point, without compromising your weapon platform. Same concept for all exported Russian weapons.
billions and billions. russian military industry is on verge of collaps. i remember, the govenrment had to order 10 shitty pieces of armata, otherwise uralmash (or the hell is their name) had to close.
russia has no money for only shitty 60 billion usd defense budget.
“russian military industry is on verge of collaps”
UVZ has an order for 100 pre-production Armata vehicles up to 2020 for extensive testing by Army before they will commit to serial production. If the Yanks did this with the F-35, they probably would have avoided the embarassing expensive fiasco they now have.
BTW as a State-owned entity, UVZ doesn’t exist to turn profits like a private company, but to produce defense hardware for the state at the best price possible (and supplement their operations with profits from export sales). An unavoidable part of this arrangement is an occassional injection of funds to ensure adequate operating capital. Its why Russia gets 5x more bang for the buck for its defense dollar.
Shitty 60B defense budget, but they still maintain a 1st rate conventional military and nuclear strategic defense. They are serial building Borei SSBNs, Yasen SSNs, Su-57, Armata, Su-34/35, Sarmat, Kalibre, Tu-160M2 & developing new tech like PAK DA & Zircon hypersonics etc. They have intervened and turned the tide of the Syrian regime-change war atrocity. Yeah, thats a lot of bang for the buck…. :-)
Sure Shlomomon, keep up the good work of dismissing the Russians as ignorant subhumans who can’t figure out which end of a screwdriver to use, but don’t be surprised when Russias enemies fall like Hitler or Napoleon did…
Russia is self sufficient and able to build carriers if they choose to, Suk 57 is already flying for evaluation and testing purposes; there are ten of them, like the 100 T14 tanks undergoing similar tests. The next generation Russian weapon systems are being tested before going to full production. As far as Mig 41, let’s backpedal to Mig 25 and Mig 31, something US has not been able or capable of producing. Maybe the F14 with the Phoenix missiles came close, however, F-14 was retired and its place taken by F-18.
Russia is self sufficient
hahaha, you are not able to produce enough vegetables and fruits :DDD about industrial products i will better nothing write (now).
The sanctions provided the backdrop for the Russian government to invest in their own enterprises, making them self sufficient. Russian farmers picked up the slack with vegetable, fruit and cereal production.
and buy in argentina :DDDD
you are big liar, jesus.
Buy what in Argentina? Has it occurred to you that Russia is reaching in US’s back yard in South America?
Russia has become the No 1 wheat producer and exporter, all thanks to renewed investment triggered by US/EU treachery… clearly you are a fuckwit.
finally, after 100 years.
cockie, i wrote about vegetables and fruits. e.g. apples.
go home, learn english first!
Import/export of foodstuffs is hardly a reason to shitcan a nations economy. No-one is fully self sufficient in everything, and in any case, Russian production of fruit & veg is increasing with the import substitution drive.
You lose again, russophobe shlomo…
The sanctions are devastating to Russias economy and despite Russias all out effort to remove them they will stay in place which is causing Putin to become scared shitless as the March 2018 elections near and Russias weak economy continues to struggle. The Russian people are starting to get tired of the little forest elf and once Putin is gone Russias government will collapse and go into chaos.
Keep believing that your flag-waving clown. it amuses me to see Muricans blind-siding themselves and failing to perceive reality until it eventually bits them in the arse.
Putin is a shoe-in for 2018 and you know it. He is a widely respected and popular politician and stateman, while the best the US can offer up to the voters are the corrupt Hildabeast and the Orange-haired buffoon.
The Mig25 and the Mig31 are old tech garbage that would be rejected by any modern Western airforce. Hell the Mig25 has proven to be good only for target practice for the US and Isreali airforces which have shot down at least 7 or 8 of them with F15s and F16s. The Iranians claim to have shot down 10 Iraqi Mig25s with their F14s during the Iraq Iran war. The Mig31 would be as defenseless as a baby seal against an F15E with its APG 63v AESA radar which is a beast. It is fast but cant maneuver worth shit and not fast enough to evade a Mach4+ amraam. An F22 or F35 are overkill.
MIG 31 does not have to maneuver, it is a firing platform against a variety of targets including low orbital satellites. Zaslon radar and R33 and R37 missiles would outperform APG 63v AESA radar and the amraam missile.
Mig31 radar is 70s tech phased array radar that is very easy to jam. APG 63v is far more advanced AESA radar that is almost impossible to jam. Russia has yet to produce a viable AESA radar that the US has been operating for the last 25 years. The Mig31 would have very little chance against the F15E. An F22 or F35 would play with the Mig31 like a cat plays with a mouse before eating it.
blah bah blah blah… and the F-35 is the uber-weapon of the century… if it doesn’t suffocate its pilot.
Yankistani jingoistic BS and endless cock-stroking… little more than self-satisfying auto-erotica.
If US miltech is so advanced, why has the USAF been so chicken shit in avoiding hostilities with the Russians in Syria? Because the brass knows that Russian military capabilities are robust and effective, and the agitprop that says otherwise is just hot air to please the flag-waving knuckle-fuckers like you.
Are you still angry that the US shot down a Syrian jet over Syria or that Turkey shot down a Russian jet or that the US destroyed 22 Syrian jets with cruise missiles and Russia is still too chicken shit to do anything about it? Yes I figured that. LMFAO.
So what? An Su-24 isn’t a fighter, so getting sucker punched from behind by a Tur(d)kish F-16 means zip. Same for a SAAF Su-22 getting swatted by USAF while the former was busy killing AQ/IS terrorists. Yeah, good job Uncle Sam, you’ve been an effective air force for Wahabbi jihadist criminals.
Maybe instead of worrying how I feel about these things, maybe you should ponder how the US has been batting for the terror team? You remember AQ? They are crew who implemented a multi-billion dollar urban redevelopment scheme in Manhattan?
BTW you’ll note how the Tur(d)kish stopped messing with RuAF strike planes once the Su-30SMs were running escort? Ankara had zero confidence that their F-16s could take on Su-30s with any success, so opted for discretion rather than stupidity.
The F16 can take on the SU30 blindfolded and with hands tied.
Turkey just decided to make friends for the time being with Russia and to placate Putin after he couldnt stop crying like a bitch after the SU24 was blown out of the sky. The SU30 has nothing to do with it.
Schoolyard kid No1: My dadas bigger than your dada…. He can whip your butt… Schoolyard kid No2: Whatever. Bye,
Infantile clown. Do you have any idea how childish you look?
Yea Putin is a shoe in through mass voter fraud and corruption. The reason Putin kills off his political opponents is because he knows he cant win fair and square.
Putin is starting to wear thin on the Russian people who want someone new and with Russias economy and bleak outlook due to sanctions Putin must distract from Russias horrid condition through artificially creating anti Western sentiment and chest beating and threstening war with NATO
Kills off his opponents.. oh boy, we’ve got a live one here. I suppose you think Trumpster is in “collusion” with “the Russians”?..
Bleak outlook… growth this year of 2% AFTER 3 YEARS of undeclared economic warfare and oil-price sabotage. 4% inflation and dropping (a historic low)… accelerating benefits delivered by export substitution program stimulating Russian domestic production….
Threatening war with NATO? Ya gotta be joking….. Tell me again, who is putting troops into Poland and the Baltic depopulating cesspools?
Maybe you should stop listening to our MSM presstitutes and their endless BS?
If you believe that Russias economy is growing at 2% I have a nice bridge I want to sell you.
All those figures you mention come from the Russian economic ministry which has the credibility of a 3 dollar bill.
The fact of the matter is sanctions are killing the Russian economy and Russias GDP and standard of living continue to lag far behind that of Western Europe.
blah blah blah…. whatever… keep repeating the same idiot tale, but reality isn’t going to conform to your sad little diatribes.
Exaggerated claims without evidence. I know of at least one example of a Syrian MiG-25 loss over Lebanon but that was a recon variant shot down by an Israeli hawk SAM. Plenty of example of IAF birds attempting an intercept of MiG-25s, but the MiG simply puts pedal to the metal at M2.8 sustained and the IAF AAMs burn out well before they reach target.
Buddy, you can repeat this shit until you are blue in the face and your knob is glowing incandescent red from hand friction, but it doesn’t make it reality.
Mig 25 is a fucking joke of a plane that has only been useful as target practice for American jets. It is an embarrasment to Russia.
So you are also saying that your Iranian friends are lying when they claim they shot down 10 Mig25s with their American supplied F14s?
Yep. You can even answer that one.
Iranian are lying. It just part of war propaganda while Iraq was hitting their cities with scuds. it happens.
MiG-25 was designed as an interceptor against M3 jets like the aborted XB-70. Its not a fighter, and wouldn’t be used to engage other fighter jets.
MiG-25 proved its worth when it presence prevented the SR-71 from performing any interdictions into USSR airspace. USAF denies like crazy but the SR-71 was intercepted on numerous occasions by Foxbats and teh USAF knew if they tried to penetrate Soviet airspace, they would lose birds.
MiG-31 is still in service (much enhanced with upgrades) and is still the world premier high altitude fast interceptor. It fulfills its design role and fulfills it well, and has a performance in its role taht no other US plane can match.
You can ignore that truth, or you can keep up your childish antics and fixate on ME experiences where export-grade monkey-models were used in tactically uunsound ways to conduct unsuitable missions.
Yes the Iranians are lying the Americans are lying the Isrealis are lying and everybody is lying Hahaha
You cant admit that the Mig25 has proven to be a big pile of crap.
Theres even a you tube video of an Iraqi Mig25 being blown out of the sky by an F16. But according to you its all fake. LMFAO.
You’re a cerifiable fuckwit. Youtube is your source? Geddouddahere…
MiG-25/31 has proven to be a very effective high-altitude high-speed long-range straight-line interceptor. Thats what it was designed for, thats what it does. If you can’t admit the obvious then you are just a dumb cunt.
Yes it has proven very effective of being blown out of the sky by the F14 F15 and F16.
No it hasn’t, and you are still evading the obvious.
Just ask Col Viktor Belenko the Soviet defector of what he thinks of the inferior Mig25.
He clearly states in his book that the plane is a huge pile of crap compared to American jets and that it was never fast enough to catch the vastly superior SR71.
Now if you cant believe someone who is an expert in the Mig25 who are you going to believe you cocksucker.
He said nothing of the sort, and his book was an agitprop exercise, as required by our governments as part of his defection deal.
It speaks volumes about your intellectual inadequacies that you don’t understand this.
BTW the MiG-25 didn’t need to cruise at M3 to intercept a SR-71. Interceptions relied on several aircraft using GCI to get within missile range. You’re probably too thick to know this…
Read his book idiot before posting such nonsense.
Yes he said all of those things and more. The Mig25 is a piece of junk.
Just explained his book is agitprop, and the MiG-25 works as intended. Try reading between the lines you fucking idiot. We live in the matrix and reality is not what it appears to be. Everything is governed by agendas, and disinfo is the norm.
Nope the book is based on fact as told by a former Russian pilot. Except you refuse to accept that the Mig25 is a seriously flawed aircraft that has proven uneffective in combat against superior American aircraft.
All that matrix bullshit you mention is typical Russian alternative reality doctrine where 2 + 2= 5. No intelligent person believes you.
“as told by”… I rest my case. Fucking idiot. the only thing “seriously flawed” around here are your reasoning skills.
Losses in the ME of export-grade monkey models used in unsuitable missions means zip. T-72s have been sledged by Muricans after the Iraq turkey shoot, but these were worn out export-grade monkey models without proper FCS and modern ammo. T-72/90 performance in Syria has been EXCELLENT with ERA and Shtora ECMs routinely defeating Murican TOW-2 ATGMs. US belived their missiles would wipe out Syrian armor, and they were shocked to learn their expectations were rubbish.
USAF hardware will prove no different when up against Russian fighters, radars, SAMs and defences in general. The USAF knows this is true, and that why they refused to encroach on Ruskie operation in Syria. :-) Truth hurts doesn’t it :-)
Hahaha. American F22s and drones are enroaching Syrian airspace on a regular basis and there are 2000 American troops inside Syria. Hardly a sign that the US is afraid of Russia. The fact of the matter is the US can turn Syria into a parking lot if it wanted to and Russia would not be able to do anything about it.
But an idiot like you still believes what Mother Russia tells you even after Russias MOD was caught posting fake video game footage to spread fake news that the US was supporting ISIS inside Syria.
Oh grow you up silly adolescent… US doesn’t impinge on Russian/Syrian gov held areas, only in those areas held SDF terror proxies. US doesn’t impinge on Russian controlled areas because it wants to avoid conflict. If US power was so overwhelming, they would wouldn’t be so insistent on avoiding confrontation.
US can turn Syria into a parking lot? So what? Why would they want to? What does it gain them? You want to earn international condemnation for aggression war no justifiable reason? Russia could turn Banderite Ukraine into a parking lot, but doesn’t, and for the same reasons.
Seriously, are you a teenager?
All Russian military equipment are just rusty iron from the 1970és except from a few developments faked in the media……LOL. Most of Russia´s S-400 are plastic dummies and NATO are scared to death……LOL. https://youtu.be/uZWPyy8Nfj4
Well said. Russians are among the greatest scam artists on the face of the earth. Practically everything they do is all fake.
Yeah sure. That’s probably why US forces went into Syria with all guns blazing to accelerate their regime-change operations. Oh wait….
Have anybody seen any S-400 fired in Syria? No! Why do you think no S-400 were fired in Syria? You guys believed in it………………….LOL. After China and Turkey and Saudi saw how effective these dummies were against the duffers in NATO and how easy it was to trick you guys, they bought some batteries from Russia……………LOL.
“Why do you think no S-400 were fired in Syria?”
Because no-one has been stupid enough to attack Russian port or airfield facilities in Syria. S-400s are there to guard Russian assets, not Syrian gov assets. Not even the wunderbar F-22 was trusted to interdict Russian facilities and attempt to operate within the electronic no-go bubbles generated by Krashua-4 ECM systems. Even the US Air force had to admit that Ruskie ECM was “eye-wateringly effective”.
Don’t you ever get fed up of banging yer head against the ground?
Dummies are used to confuse the enemy and to convince them to waste expensive PGMs on valueless targets. Its called asymmetrical warfare, and the US fails to grasp it time and time again… probably cuz they are arrogant hubristic morons, a lot like you and yer butt-buddy exposito
tell me that you’re joking.
you can’t be for real.
Those are called decoys idiot.
Just where do you derive your wishful thinking? Facts ……..? Or just more opinion?…. Perhaps the truth may dawn when the US tries its luck one time too many! Sadly, my own country the UK slavishly supports the US and its controlling Zionist Bankster Cabal because it too is a puppet vassal State.
hahha u wish pal, soon u gonna hear one flying over ur head LOL
It would be nice with some weapons from other countries and really compare them. Here we again see a weapon,which will come if it does.
The list of those in the future products are too many.
Too much advertizing style to make people feel Russians are the best in the world. They are only in a few corners.
So what about the rest ???
One thing I would like to see is some joint Russian Chinese development of new weapons. I think if there was some sort of ‘division of labour’ in weapons development wasteful duplication could be avoided. I think China is developing some very advanced missiles. Perhaps some of the knowledgeable people here can explain why these can not be mounted on Russian planes.
that wpuld be the end of russia
“I think China is developing some very advanced missiles. Perhaps some of the knowledgeable people here can explain why these can not be mounted on Russian planes”
because they copied Russian missiles for the most part, and the rest is proper to their doctrine and not to Russia’s one.
The US has at least 2 ready aircraft to swat that ugly duckling from the wild blue yonder. If Rember, the USA stared the russkies from the skies in the 20th century.
You sound like what happens when cousins marry…
LEO is future battlefront. Requires Sub Orbital insertion just as Satellites. A vehicle which needs a rocket piggyback,and controled flight landing needs turn around time, Maintenance. While the US is ahead of Russia in this dept,….it’s not primacy if you can be in LEO and move.
How do you stay in LEO,Move and be a weapon?.
A Vehicle which has a missile load out, possibly laser,or kinetic spikes. Like a dormant Torpedo which goes active and search mode, moves, goes dormant. . Same for the LEO lurking hunter.
US can attempt to map LEO ,…yet if Lurker can move to different positions,US would require a system which continually updates all LEO orbiting positions to track the Hunter package.
Easily less costly than rocket piggyback launch and maint/return cycle.
Both Russia and China could have this, …which can target satellites allong with other LEO orbital.
im so excited for this beautiful looking plane, it sounds to be russia’s first STARFIGHTER!!! :)))
Friends, please accept the fact that western countries are paying internet trolls in every country.. To troll discussions in non-mainstream sources but also mainstream media that still allow relatively uncensored discussions.. I can speak several languages, checking media in several countries and I can assure you – there is always 2-3 paid trolls with multiple nicks fighting for the Pax Americana.. Their goal is not to convince you or by passers of their “truth”.. Their goal is to provoke participants to a language that can be used against platform owners (close the site – discussions, treathen with fin. penalty and so on..), disinform people looking for information (make them doubt and disgust looking for info) and engage all those who know the truth – in long, fruithless, pointless discussion! For them to lose time, energy and resources that could be used in productive way! Altough i agree that sometimes is necessary to react to a blatant lies of these slaves, dont do them a favor and dont engage them in lenghty disscussions – that is exactly what they are paid for!