Written by The Saker; Originally appeared at The Unz Review
General Ratko Mladic, now 75, was sentenced last week to life in prison by the NATO kangaroo court known as the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY). It is worth mentioning here that, just like Bosnian-Serb President Radovan Karadzic and Serbian President Slobodan Milosevic, Mladic was attested and handed over to this NATO tormentors by the Serbian authorities. That tells us all we need know about the current colonial status of Serbia and about the comprador nature of the regime in power in Belgrade.
For the AngloZionist Empire, this is all about humiliating the nation which dared to defy it. Because make no mistake, that is the true unforgivable sin the Serbs are truly guilty of and which they are now being humiliated for: they dared to defy the AngloZionist Empire and they did so alone, without even any meaningful support from Russia. In fact, the Bosnian-Serbs alone dared defying the US, the EU and NATO not only without the support of Russia, but even without the support of the Yugoslav authorities in Belgrade (Slobodan Milosevic imposed sanctions on his Serbian brothers in Bosnia!). In doing so the Bosnian-Serbs showed the world a level of courage which the typical modern European can’t even begin to imagine, nevermind comprehend. Likewise, the war in Bosnia was largely misunderstood when it happened and now it is almost forgotten. Yet I would argue that this war played an absolutely crucial role in shaping the following decades. So let’s remember a few things which happened at that time.
First and foremost, this was a case of monumental, mind blowing, hypocrisy, betrayal and cowardice. Hypocrisy because the Serbs were given one Commandment “thou shalt not secede” while the Slovenes, Croats, Bosnian Muslims and, later, Albanians were given the exact opposite command: “thou shalt secede” by turning administrative boundaries into national borders. Betrayal because Yugoslavia was founding member of the Non-Aligned Movement but yet all the putatively non-aligned fully aligned themselves to the Empire and against Yugoslavia. And cowardice because nobody, not a single country, had the courage to speak the truth about the history of the WWII genocide of Serbs in Croatia and Bosnia while, at the same time, producing tsunamis of crocodile tears about Cambodia, Rwanda and, of course, the obligatory “Holocaust”. Everybody looked away, and those who yesterday had engaged in acts of unspeakable atrocities (Croats and Germans especially) “generously” told their Serbian victims that bygones should be bygones and that history did not matter. And when finally international law was overtly and viciously violated when the “western democracies” used their airpower to support the terrorists and thugs of the KLA, not a single lawyer or politician had the brains to realize that what died the day the first bomb fell on Serbia was the entire international order created after WWII. It is hard for me to image a more shameful and disgusting behavior of all the European countries who not only did not defend one of their own, but even enthusiastically assisted the AngloZionists in their vicious and disgraceful war on the Serbian people.
Truly, that war had it all, every dirty trick was used against the Serbs: numerous false flags attacks, pseudo-genocides, illegal covert operations to arm terrorists groups, the covert delivery of weapons to officially embargoed entities, deliberate attacks against civilians, the use of illegal weapons, the use of officially “demilitarized zones” to hide (fully armed) entire army corps – you name it: if it is disgusting it was used against the Serbian people. Even deliberate attacks on the otherwise sacrosanct journalistic profession was considered totally normal as long as the journalists were Serbs. As for the Serbs, they were, of course, demonized. Milosevic became the “New Hitler” (along with Saddam Hussein) and those Serbs who took up arms to defend their land and families became genocidal Chetniks.
One of the worst aspects of the war was the absolutely disgraceful behavior of Muslim nations and communities worldwide: they all supported their supposed ‘brethren’ in Bosnia even though the latter were 1) useful idiots for the Empire 2) mostly secular and 3) when religious, then of an imported “Saudi wahhabi” kind (just like in Chechnia, by the way). Instead of trying to make sense of what was really taking place, the overwhelming majority of Muslims worldwide reacted in knee-jerk manner I call “wrong or right – my Ummah!”, even the Iranians feel into that AngloZionist trap. Muslims worldwide were conned by the Empire only to find themselves in exactly the same situation as the Serbs, only a decade later. Some would say that this is just karmic justice, but I take no joy in that since the Muslim who ended up on the receiving end of the Empire’s policies were overwhelmingly innocent victims and not those politicians who allied themselves with modern Crusaders and Jews against their Orthodox neighbors. Nowadays the (fictional) “genocide” of Bosnian-Muslims by Serb and, especially, the myth of Srebrenica is still used by the Empire to try to divide Orthodox Christians and Muslim to better rule over them all or, even better, to let them fight each other.
Yes, all the anti-Muslim GWOT-wars after 9/11 have their methodological roots in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo. There will come a day when Muslims will come to understand that fact and they will then reevaluate what they thought they knew about the wars in Bosnia and Kosovo.
Nowadays the same western hypocrites who whine about the “Russian occupation of Crimea” forget that a referendum was organized there in which 96.77% of the population voted to join Russia. Or when they do mention it, they say that it was illegal because people had to vote at “gunpoint”. But what is never mentioned is that in Kosovo no referendum of any kind ever took place, not even after the full ethnic cleansing of Kosovo (the biggest liar of them all, Obama, even stated that Kosovo only left Serbian after a referendum!).
[Sidebar: I realize that in the paragraphs above I used words which are not normally used in political analyses. Words like “hypocrisy” “betrayal” “cowardice” “shameful” “disgusting” or “disgraceful” are usually seen as too partisan, too emotional and not objective or neutral enough. Well, I *proudly* proclaim my totally non-neutral position on this absolutely disgusting and immoral war against the Serbian nation. How can we hope to ever make a change in the disgusting world we live in if we don’t use moral categories and if we refuse to show outrage when outrage is warranted? Just like Kennedy declared that he was a Berliner and tens thousands of brainwashed TV-watching drones declared that they “were Charlie”, I hereby declare myself a proud and unrepentant Bosnian-Serb Chetnik! On the issue of the Serbian nation I have no and want no “neutrality”, period!]
There is another event which has been largely forgotten since but which we now see was a watershed: on 24 March 1999 the Russian Prime Minister, Evgenii Primakov, was on his way to Washington DC when he got the news that the US and NATO had attacked Yugoslavia. Primakov then ordered his pilot to make a u-turn over the Atlantic ocean and fly back to Russia. Primakov, who passed away in 2015, was a highly respected statesman and diplomat, and he remains so to this day. His u-turn over the Atlantic will go down in history as the very first sign of Russian resistance to the Empire. You could say that Primakov’s u-turn marked the end of an era in which Russia still harbored some naïve hopes that her western partners were not gangsters and thugs. One more thing: Primakov was *exactly* the kind of Russian deep-state actor which could have played a key role in the process of succession to Eltsin. One day we might find out that the lynching of the Serbian nation by the West played a crucial role in getting Vladimir Putin to power. That also would be karmic justice.
Finally, the US/NATO aggression against Yugoslavia showed for the very time the limitations of airpower and cruise missile attacks against a well entrenched adversary: 78 days of missile and bomb strikes did hurt, maim and kill a lot of civilians, but the Serbian Army Corps in Kosovo remained basically unscathed. That is why the airstrikes had to be ‘expanded’ to all of Yugoslavia to terrorize civilians, just like the British did in WWII against Germany or the Israelis against Lebanon in 2006. But what decided the outcome was never the use of NATO airpower, but a simple and cynical deal made between Milosevic and the Empire: if he agreed to hand over Kosovo he would be allowed to remain in power. Milosevic accepted only to later find himself murdered in the Hague. So much for trusting your future to the Empire…
Looking back, one would be forgiven for assuming that the Serbian people have now been totally humiliated and that their spirit of resistance is broken. And, to some degree, this is no doubt true today, hence the existence of pro-NATO pro-EU political movements in Serbia. But these only exist because the Empire is funding and maintaining them (for example, the Serbian media is totally Empire-controlled). But let me suggest the following thought experiment.
Imagine for a new minutes that for some reason the Empire collapsed. No more NATO and probably no more EU. Or maybe just a little NATO and just a little EU left in spite of it all. But, more importantly, no Camp Bondsteel. What do you think would happen?
The ethnically cleansed Krajinas are probably not worth fighting for. If you were Serbian, would you want Croats as your neighbors? How wise would it be to risk your life and family by living in a few small basically indefensible enclaves surrounded by folks who have proven over and over again that, if given the chance, they will try to convert1/3rd of you, expel another 1/3rd and murder the remaining 1/3rd? Of course many Croats are wonderful and kind people who want nothing to do with that kind of Ustashe politics, but these good Croats made no difference, not in WWII and not in the latest AngloZionist war against the Serbian nation. If I was a Serb I would never contemplate returning to the Krajinas, the risk is simple too big.
Bosnia is a very different story. The poor Bosnian-Muslims were used as a tool and with time they will inevitably come to the realization that they sided with the wrong party in that war. So there is still hope for Bosnia, in spite of it all. Furthermore, the Bosnia-Serbs are still the victors in this war. Yes, they had to accept a bad deal because they were basically fighting the entire planet alone, but you could also say that their courage forced the AngloZionist to accept the existence of a Republika Srpska inside Bosnia, not something they wanted. I have met enough Bosnian Serbs to say that these are extremely tough and courageous people and that as soon as NATO collapse, which it will, they will easily be in the position to set the terms of their future coexistence with the Bosnian Muslims and Croats. When that happens I hope that Russia will actively promote her “Chechen example” and put enough pressure on the Bosnian-Serbs so that they act with decency and restraint against their former enemies. Considering that there is, alas, an undeniable core of truth in the accusation that the Bosnian-Serbs did commit atrocities against civilians during during the war, even if not anywhere near the numbers claimed by the AngloZionist propaganda, my feeling is that the Bosnian-Serbs will act with restraint and in a honorable way.
But Kosovo? The place where hundreds of Orthodox churches and monasteries were destroyed and thousands of Serbian murdered (while NATO watched and did absolutely *nothing* to stop these atrocities!)?
Let’s just say that if I had an Albanian friend living in Kosovo today I would strongly urge him to get the hell out while he still can. Kosovo will be the very first place in Europe where the pendulum of history will reverse its current course. There is simply no way that Serbs will ever accept the theft of their ancestral land and spiritual cradle by a combination of Albanian gangsters and western air forces. Nor should they. An Albanian occupied (aka “independent”) Kosovo is a fiction which can only be maintained by the AngloZionist Empire – as soon as it tanks Kosovo will be liberated.
Right now the Serbian nation has been chopped up in pieces and the slogan that “only unity can save the Serbian people” has proven itself to be true. Right now the Serbian people are barely surviving and their unity is in tatters. Even the official Serbian Church is controlled by pro-Western Ecumenists bishops who rely on the civil authorities to illegally persecute those bishops who refuse to bow the knee to the New World Order like Bishop Artemje of Raska and Prizren.
In their long and often tragic history, the Serbs have survived much worse and I don’t believe for a second that the current nightmare will extinguish the Serbian national identity. In fact I believe that the Serbian people will be reunited (Montenegro or Bosnia are very roughly is to Serbia what the Ukraine or Belarus would be to Russia) and when that happens all those who participated in the AngloZionist lynch mob against Serbia will be too ashamed of themselves to look the Serbian people in the eye.
Today the Empire is celebrating the apparent victory of it’s kangaroo court in the Hague. But they forget that the modern Serbian national identity was born from a much bigger defeat suffered, by the way, just a few miles to the northwest of the so-called “capital” of the “independent” Kosovo: Prishtina, at place called Kosovo Pole. Yes, modern Serbia was born from a huge defeat! Those who today are rejoicing in their victory against Serbian might want to ponder this fact.
In the meantime the Empire is still in the humiliation business, its latest victim being the Russian Olympic Committee and, more relevantly, all the Russian athletes and, even more relevantly, all the Russian people. That is just par for the course and it would be naïve to expect anything else from the kind of international world order which was born on the day the Empire attacked Serbia. For the foreseeable future hypocrisy, betrayal and cowardice will remain the order of the day even if nothing can be built by such anti-values. Hypocrisy, betrayal and cowardice are also infinitely uninspiring thus they carry in themselves the seeds of their own demise. Thus the liberation of Kosovo will not only be a political one, but even more importantly also a moral and spiritual one. In a world ruled and even defined by hypocrisy, betrayal, cowardice and, above all, lies, Kosovo cannot be liberated. I would say that we, all of us, won’t *deserve* a free Kosovo as long as we allow evil to rule the world as it does today. But I also know that lies, or even death, cannot defeat the Truth and that Kosovo shall be liberated.
FUDBAL – Navijaci na utakmici Rusija – Srbija. Moskva, 10.08.2011. photo:N.Parausic
The attack on Kosovo was a partial attack on the Christian identity of the Serbs. After NATO forced the withdrawal of Serbs from Kosovo, many Serbian Orthodox churches and monestaries were damaged or destroyed. Had Serbs done these things against Albanian mosques, there would be outrage.
I simply hope people understand that Kosovo is Serbia.
Kosovo je Srbija ,Kosovo Je Srbija. Jebem jas svi siptarske picke i nato pakta okupatori.
BRAVO ! Good Comment ! & AWESOME OP ED !! We need more actual TRUTH Southfront
Western corporate media will never help them understand.
Albanian subhuman maggots will be driven out, it is inevitable, the only question is when. The eternal tapestry of history never stops unfolding. Future generations will read about “independent” Kosovo in history books, immersive VR simulations, cave paintings or from the words of the tribal Shaman, depending on whatever the future has in store, but the collapse of this filthy gangster-controlled mafia crime state WILL HAPPEN.
Kosovo for Serbia is exactly the same thing as Palestine for Israel. Although they both claim historical ties to the land the fact is that foreign majority controls it for centuries. In case of Kosovo, ethnic balance was shifted significantly after Serbian exodus in late 1600s, when they populated Pannonia and later claimed it as their own. It’s a classic case of wanting to have a cake and eat it – it doesn’t work. Also, in late 1800s after Serbs expelled ethnic Albanians and Turks from newly acquired Southern Serbia, the balance shifted again. Every coin has two sides and a historical one a couple more…
Oh my God… “newly acquired” Southern Serbia? Serb “newly acquired” Southern Serbia? :D That chose of phrases and language speaks volumes about you and your positions and preconceptions.
No, Jewish issue is a Jewish issue, Serbian is whole different ball game. Even though we werent a majority for the most part of the last three centuries in Kosovo, we were exactly strangers in the land. We had a heavy presence throughout that period, often having the upper hand in population ratio after Ottoman defeats in their wars with the Austrians and the Russians.
Secondly, we never mistreated Albanians, unlike the Jewish-Palestinian ordeal. There were more Albanians loyal to the state than there were opposing it, but it didnt matter much when the Empire decided to put its weight and coin on one side. Albanian had their own parallel institutions, their own educational system, they had news and media outlets printed in their native language. They were receiving vast majority of funds from all other Yugoslav republics, but most from Serbia proper, intended on for the development just as means of social bribery – here’s the money but dont create mess type of deal. And so on and so forth.
In any case, the ethnic balance is due to get shifted again.
Serb “newly acquired” Southern Serbia in 1800s, YES. Since it was controlled by the Turks for 500 years and inhabited by large number of Albanians, Turks, Bulgarians and Vlachs, along with Serbs of course. We can hardly talk about “liberation”. Unless of course you think about the fact that local civilians were in large part liberated from their life and property. …Secondly, we never mistreated Albanians…LOL.
Who has written history books you’ve gained your knowledge from? Have you ever asked yourself? One thing is being controlled by occupying power and other is being populated by those who has lived there for many generations. And by the way Kosovo today hasn’t been much different from Afghanistan. Its local population is controlled by drug mafia under CIA and NATO supervision. Human organs trafficking has become common place where the organs have been obtained forcibly from local Serbian population as it has been discovered by international jurist Carla Del Ponte.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/dec/14/kosovo-prime-minister-llike-mafia-boss
Birds of feather come together. Welcome to the company of alike.
You question the authorship of books and not the historical facts – that clearly shows that even you know I’m right. On the other hand I never tried to defend crimes of CIA and NATO in Afghanistan or otherwise. But if you choose to close your eyes of your own mistakes that help the Empire rule over you – you will always be it’s slaves…
You are obviously a mental slave of Western propaganda. That’s where your confidence comes from. “you know I’m right” I appreciate you sense of self righteousness as well as your power of persuasion . It’s an exemplary attitude. However no comment on Guardian article. It looks like you’ve been intentionally avoiding facts that don’t fit your narrative which clearly betrays your bias.
No need to comment on it. I do believe that US appointed satraps of Kosovo are mafiosos with an extensive background in drug smuggling , so organ harvesting is not beyond their morals. However, the fact that the Empire chooses the worst of the worst to do it’s dirty work doesn’t absolve Serbia of it’s criminal politics towards all it’s neighbors in last 100 years and more. You can’t look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but fail to notice the beam in your own…
Serbians constituted a major fighting force in WWII which managed to keep one whole German army from being sent to RU and also it suffered the most of the casualties in the Balkans. That’s how evil they have been and still they are towards their neighbors. “You can’t look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but fail to notice the beam in your own..” For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Serbians constituted a major fighting force in WWII … and they constituted 100Ks of Royal army POW working in Germany and 10Ks of Chetnik collaborators and died in the millions in Croatian camps- so which is it? You shouldn’t be using so much of your own ethnic mythology you’re trying to peddle here – it’s not good for you…
Serbs were all that. Majority fighting force of the communist partisans, by a great margin. Almost exclusively comprised the Cetnik Royalist units, as well as the Ljotic/Nedic units inside occupied Serbia itself.
Croatians, on the other hand, were all in Ustase and Domobrani units of the ISoC, with a small tiny minority joining the partisans… which changed after 1943. when it became clear that the Reich is caput… from then on, Croatians are starting to desert the Ustase and Domobrani units and join the partisans en masse, to save themselves from prosecutions.
“No need to comment on it.” Sure enough. However there is a great need to single out and demonize Serbian population by the western propaganda machinery. Have you been payed for it or you just volunteer?
I’ve been accused of being a “paid Putin troll” and a member of a mysterious antisemitic troll army picking on innocent zionists. People supporting “moderate” opposition in Syria call me dirty assadist and ISIL supporter call be a kaffir deserving a beheading as soon as they invade. And now it seems I joined an evil cabal of Serbia-demonizers. Well, I must be doing something right…
What criminal policy against which neighbors exactly in that 100 years you are talking about? Who did we wrong and how?
There is not a single part of today’s Serbia which was under the Ottoman occupation for 500 consecutive years, none. Even the parts which had it the worst, like Vranje and Nis areas, saw periods of uprisings and liberation, living under Austrian rule for the first part of the XVIII century. Thats simply it, we have been fighting for liberation for centuries, it wasnt given to us, neither did it just fall into our lap. So it wasnt an “acquired” territory at all, but a liberated one. The main seat of our Serbian Orthodox Church was in Pec for that whole time, in the Ottoman controlled Kosovo, and you can be sure as hell that we had fought to liberate it once more… not to “occupy” a land which was teeming with our cultural markings and monuments under every nook and cranny, ridiculous.
But in all seriousness, if someone had said to my ancestors that one day people will question the very fact they fought for their liberation and independence from a cruel and barbarous occupier, they would find them mad. You are trying to do just that, to delegitimize one thing that cannot be illegitimate, and i find deeply entrenched racism or cultur-racism in the core of that attitude.
There is no denying the innumerable sins of NATO, the US, and the “Empire”, but most of the above piece constitutes revisionist history at its worst.
The Saker has a good heart. However, he has always maintained a deeply subjective, even willful, blind spot when it comes to the campaign of rape and slaughter committed by the Serbs in the Bosnian war, one that has severely damaged his credibility in the eyes of countless sympathetic readers. This also has made it hard for some readers to take seriously many of his otherwise very good and objective analyses.
Although he claims to be beyond chauvinistic nationalism and patriotism (and I’m sure he believes what he says), this, along with all objectivity, goes out of the window when it comes to the Serbs (and Orthodox Slavic peoples in general). I’ve read articles where he rejects well-documented crimes committed against the Bosnians as mere propaganda, but later reported alleged pogroms committed against Russians by the (indeed Fascist and chauvinistic) regime in Ukraine which even his own supporters – genuine Slavic chauvinists – had to tell him were false. His excuses for such reporting such nonsense were little more than a pleading for understanding in the wake of Ukrainian fascism, which made such rumors “plausible” by default. Would that he showed half of the same courtesy to the victims of Serbian fascism in Bosnia!
The Saker has always refused to see that his consistent (and often just) condemnation of fascism in the Ukraine, and his consistent apologetics and excuses for Bosnian-Serb fascism smacks of a double standard that will turn off any objective reader of his work.
yeah,I wonder why he didn’t mention the 10 day war (yugoslav invasion of slovenia) or vukovar or srebrenica or the plan they tried to implement,not to save yugoslavia because even they knew it died,but to create a “greater serbia” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Serbia#/media/File:Greater_Serbia_in_Yugoslavia.png
Yes he is totally uninformed, such as when Slovenian “black-shirts” previously looted all YU devise reserves and then threw YU like used condom, under protection of BND,MI and ZIA. Known also as “The wedge that destroyed YU”. Their from-dick-to-dick-to-heaven mind is clear as tear, and mimicry does not help. This kind of trails in the stone are not erasable no matter what you try. Cuz JNA didn’t attack even once. Financed paramilitary attacked all state watchtowers and smaller military assets, to provoke hilarious “ten-day-war”.
Nope… JNA did not attacked Vukovar.. that were obviously forest spirits inside T84 and Mig29
You are ignoring biger picture, because truth hurts you.
There were crimes on all sides in Yugoslavian civil war, but biger picture is what Saker wrote in this article.
I agree that there were crimes on all sides in Yugoslavia (that was not the civilian war). And war crime have no nationality. If you ask me , all of them should be sentenced with the worst sentence no metter they are Croats, Serbs or Mongols. I cannot agree that i have missed the bigger picture… in opositte.. i did get that and i cant accept ultraradical serbian nationalism which Saker promotes.
So biger picture is ultraradical serbian nationalism? Wow. Obviously truth hurts you for some reason. Because biger picture obviously benefits Serbs. That is why you are buthurt. And that is why you are using such ultra, mega, giga words.
By every definition war in Yugoslavia was civil war.
Civil war is war inside one nation or without national auspice. Reason is usually ideological. So, you are not even close. But … as it was once said; Margaritas ante porcos… Biger picture… so you are the one who will show to the world what is bigger picture? Save me from such thinking. That is exaclty the reason for war(s) which Serbs fought through 90′. And every time some else was gulity… just look where those wars fought. not one on serbian teritory !! or you will writte me now that all those countries were serbian ? ooo yes . now i am lightened. Bosnia,Slovenia, Croatia, Kosovo … all that is bigger picture …
Well, civil wat is war inside one country. Yugoslavia was one country. Break up of Yugoslavia was civil war. Also, even if hipoteticly there was no Yugoslavia, war in Croatia was civil war, because there were 500 000 Serbs who lived inside Croatia, and Croats had war with them. So no matter how you look it was civil war.
War in Croatia and Bosnia hapened because obthe long history of Serbophobia in those regions, and because Serbs were big in numbers in those regions/countries.
There was no war in Serbia because Serbis did not try to ethnicly cleanse Croats or Bosniaks in Serbia, like Croats and Bosniaks did to Serbs in Croatia, or Bosnia.
There was no war in Sloveni, what hapened in Slovenia was more like incident, not war.
Saker explained Kosovo well, UCK eas on American list of terorist organisations in the early 90s. Later America put them down from the list, and used them in war against Serbia.
Tje dacy that Serbia was bombed by zionist empire is the proof itself that Serbia was on the good side. Zionist American empire simply used Albanians, Bosniaks and Croats to break up Yugoslavia, and to atack Serbs who were the only nation that did not want to bow down to USA empire.
Yes biger picture benefits more Serbs then Croats, that is why you are buthurt about Saker teling the truth.
I was talking only about our friends from slovenia.
It wasnt the JNA which attacked Vukovar, it was the Croatian paramilitaries that had occupied the town and layed out a siege against the local JNA garrison in their permanent army barracks in Vukovar, cutting their power and water and starting to attrition them with sniper and mortar fire. JNA simpy reacted to this by ordering a deblockade of their units in the town, a move which ANY military HQ in the world would order promptly.
Vukovar is in Croatia. War started because of people with your opinion that parts of Croatia are serbian soil and shold be Serbia. Your words that JNA “just reacted” are ridiculous. After JNA (read serbain army because there were no slovenians, croats and even bosniaks in there any more) entered the city (suffering10-15000 casualties in this “just reaction”), they pulled out from hospital 250 wounded croatians and shot them. This is the way that heroic serbian army fought on all fronts in ex Yougoslavia. Have you ever think about the fact that Serbs wage war with Slovenians, Croatians, Bosnians and Albanians and all of those nations are genocidal nations tried to wipe out poor serbians??? Isnt something wierd in that?
Vukovar is in Croatia TODAY, back then it was part of Yugoslavia. Prior to Yugoslavia, Vukovar was NEVER a part of Croatia, which in itself did not exist after its brief 11th century existence (which is yet to be corroborated with material evidence). You are living in a Greater Croatia that Tito’s constitution of 1974 and its border solution brought you.
That was the whole issue with Croatian “Independence”, we did not mind you wanting one, but we certainly opposed your attempt to steal that which was not yours, ever.
Luckily, you cannot sustain yourself in those Greater Croatia borders and will soon fail as a state.
As for the JNA, it is a blatant lie that it was comprised exclusively by Serbs. There were plenty of Muslims and Croats, even Slovenes left in the Army even after the war had broken out. Heck, there were even Serbs in the Croatian separatist army, fighting their countrymen, and the same was true regarding Croatians and specially Muslims, even Albanians, in the Yugoslav, Serb dominated army.
Further more, it is a blatant lie that 10-15 thousand people had died at Vukovar. It reminds me of those CNN “reports” about 500.000 raped Muslim women inside the Serbian “rape camps” … It was a bloody battle, but the Croatian paramilitaries had done everything in their position to make it more bloody and more savage, using civilian areas and even the city hospital for sniper and mortar shelling provocations against the JNA. I do not condemn mass executions per se, but i also do not pretend to be holier than thou… war is not nice, people die in war, people do stupid stuff in war and make other people do even stupider stuff, often resulting in people being dead. But if i were there in a JNA unit and had heard and witnessed everything that had happened, which includes but was not limited to ritual killings of Serbian civilians inside the town (which was done by Mercep and Glavas paramilitary, precisely in order to provoke a Serbian reaction), and after i have personally suffered sniper fire from the said hospital, i d have no second thoughts about going in, finding any “patients” who look fishy to me, meaning i strongly suspect them of being in uniform half an hour before me getting there (powder residues and smell on the fingers for example) , taking them out and executing them personally.
Whatever is your judgement of me, we are talking about a 200 or so, most of which were enemy combatants trying to pass as patients, which reminds me of todays ISIS fighters trying to pass as women in hijab. And not only that, but we are talking about liberation of a city from an illegal paramilitary force of Ustase affiliation, who were holding both the JNA unit inside the city, and the city itself in terror.
you talk like a serb when it comes to the yugoslav civil war “yugoslavia dindu nuffin! dej wuz good boyz,it wuz those evul fascist slovenians,croatians,bosnians,albanians,serbs dindu nuffin!”
So what is your problem with the facts above. Not shiptarised?
Continue watching CNN, MSN, ABC. Good source of information though.
It’s currency reserves not devise though true.
10 day war in Slovenia was exclusively a Slovene interest, which they sparked out just so they could say later on that they had to wage war for independence. Other than that, everyone and their grandma in Yugoslavia knew that there is no major issues between Ljubljana and Belgrade at the time, and that succession was already not in question by then, only the format of it.
Just before all that started in fascist Slovenia there was organized industrial action by all rubbish companies and Austrian rubbish companies have been hired by Slovenian local government to do the job. Their trucks were crossing freely YU border with loads of arms supplied by NATO purchased from the former members of Warshaw pact.
You absolutely do not have a clue what has been happening in those times. From whole building you keep just a tiny stone, as souvenir, to keep your toilet paper against wind.
Give us an example so we could judge for ourselves, which well documented crimes did the Serbs commit against the “Bosniaks” (you meant to say Muslims?) which the Saker is rejecting?
I just hope you are not talking about Markale incidents…
Omarska death camp.
What about it, except it was never a death camp? Death camp is by definition a camp where people come to die. In the Yugoslav civil wars of 1992.-1995. such camps were non existent on either side, unlike during the WW2 when such camps were present and run, exclusively by the Croatian Ustase.
As for Omarska, i only remember that case for that infamous photograph taken by some Western journo later proven to be a fraud, meaning it was taken from inside the camp looking out, not the other way around.
Camp existed, many prisoners were interned in it, some of them were executed during the war, most presumably they were revenge killings, with people on both sides knowing exactly who killed their loved ones, when and where in that war, as they were mostly neighbors who knew each other well before the war. Thats war for you.
But calling that camp as a death camp (would be interested to hear your opinion on the label of Jasenovac, what kind of a camp was it, how many people perished there, in what period, who killed them, why and how) is certainly bound to make any truth loving person to call you on that crap.
It is hard to accept that your or mine fellow nationals did war crimes. It is always hard burden on all nation. But let me tell you that my fellow nationals did not do war crimes in my name and who ever, when ever did it, he did in his own name and with his own responsibility. So yes, to answer your question… Ustase (the most them who were of volunteers) are not my side. Historical numbers talk about 100k-700k of innocent people (mainly Serbs) depends which source you use were killed in death camp Jasenovac. Just wana tell you that I am sick of counting numbers of innocent people killed in there. Just respect them and leave them alone. Those guys who slaughter did not ask me neither will ever represent me in any way. They are not heroes but war criminals of worst kind. As chetniks who slaugter people through all dalmatian coast and Bosnia. That does not mean that all Serbs are guilty for that. What I want to tell you; look at historical data from all perspectives. If you let so called Krajina exist, then be consistent… Kosovo then can exist too as a state. If Kosovo is Serbia, then so called Krajina cannot in any way be anything but as is. History is not one stream all respect but mass of streams depends of perspective people use to conclude. I respect your opinion but do not like any kind of war agitation from any side at all.
Serbs are very brave and have been wronged.they were much better and braver resistance than so- called french iresistance. In time, europe will look back on them as visionaries for seeing the headchopper threat and will feel guilty for betraying them. You reap what you sow and in the harems of the future many former “average joe native euro /us housewives” will curse the names of major,clinton etc for the fools and traitors they were.
What a pityfull nonsense report. Kosovos population is over 90% Albanian. That it used to be partly serbian some 6 centuries ago is hardly relevant as 8 centuries earlier it was inhibited by Illyrians, what are now Albanians.
For me it is hardly relevant they are muslims.
So your position is that Serbia should accept the loss of Kosovo to a creeping invasion of Islamic Albanians? Should Europe, especially the Dutch, submit to defeat caused by a creeping invasion of Muslims? Should the U$ submit to a defeat caused by a creeping invasion of Latinos? What gives these invaders the right to conquer a sovereign nation, and destroy that nations culture, and religion? That said, if the EU, Serbia, the U$ or any other nation lacks the courage to defend its borders, citizens, and culture then it deserves the slavery, and death that will be forced on it by the invaders.
If one takes the ‘Illyrian Solution’, the entire western half of Balkans should become part of the crime and terror hub Quisling statelet of Kosovo.
You are hailing from a country that is being kosovized at high speed, so prudence should warn you: what you recognize as lawful, can be wielded against you.
Don’t be proud of your ignorance, it’s pitiful.
Organized ethnic cleansing of Serbs from Kosovo has started with the establishment of League of Prizren and project of Greater Albania backed by both Ottoman Empire and Austro-Hungarian Empire. Around 400,000 Serbs were cleansed out between 1876 and 1912 and after that for the first time in history Albanians become the majority in Kosovo. Ethnic cleansing continued throughout the Second World War and in communist Yugoslavia.
There is no relation between Illyrians and Abanians. Oldest Albanian monuments (tombstones) on that territory date from the 17-18th century. To be honest, I don’t know much about their cultural heritage in Caucasian Albania…. but that can give you a hint for your further research.
Greater Albania is after Macedonia now. And the same ‘west’ that betrayed the Serbs is busy undermining the Macedonians to hand their state to the islamic Saudi aligned Albania as well.
I hope the Albanians don’t proclaim the Macedonian Alexander the Great as an Albanian or they will want Turkey, Iran and Central Asia.
i kosovo albans are new element, most of them fleed aftre 1945 from albania befor comme terror of enver hodsha. som, these gypsies,lakie you, d.n., began jumping. but i tell you one: themoslems will be excluded from europe. you, kurd, turks, albanians, bosnians, pakis, africans, all.
Well, after the Ottomans have been butchering and converting us for a couple of hundred of years, after both Turks, Germans and Italians had their go at trying to dominate the Balkans by supporting Albanians in their genocidal campaigns against the Serbs in the 20th century, and after this last attempt by USA, NATO and your pitiful Netherlands, to repeat the same process again, ye, its about 85% Albanian.
And since you obviously didnt know this, last time we had a majority in Kosovo was in first half of the 20th century.
If I am not mistaken Serbia is in Nato against Russia right? Correct me if I am wrong
Serbia is not yet in NATO, but Serbia is definitely turning against Russia, and seeking membership in both NATO, and the EU.
No Serbia is not in NATO, and will never join NATO. Serbia is on the way to join EU (but that also may never happen), but when it comes to NATO, no Serbia will never join it. Military nautrality is in Serbian constitution. It is a law.
Serbian people is 90% pro Russian. And 90% antiNATO.
Serbia will never join NATO.
Serbia SHOULD NEVER join NATO.
You only have to look the lesson from Greece. We are screwed Big time. There simply is not enough time or space to list them all. I will stick to last 60 years only. Cyprus WAS INVADED by Turkey with the connivance of USA & UK.
Greece was told to behave and NOT help. The Traitors complied (a la Milosevic)
Only a handful of Greek soldiers without air cover or decent arms, fought off overwhelming force and denied the Nicosia Airport to the Turks (even though it was agreed by the politicians and the Greek HIGH Command, Arapakis, Ioannidis etc. etc..) That’s for NATO
Do you honestly want me to list the EU financial crimes that are going on right NOW?????
Or the Degradation of the Greek Armed Forces???
WHO do you think is going to be the BENEFICIARY???? All the ordinary Serbs that I have met AGREE wholeheartedly we should resume the OLD ALLIANCE which is NATURAL.
but in cyprus makarios began with fascist politics.
You mean to tell me you KNOW ALL his fascist policies AND NOT those of the Greek Junta in Athens??? ….or of their Bosses in Washington DC??? Could you make it more specific please??
makarios made from turks second class citizens. and he was warned by many countires, hat his politics will finish with tragedy. like hitlers.
That information took like 30 seconds to fact check yourself… NO, you are not right.
Omg… love for southfront but this quantity of nonsens have not read for a long time. Author is obviously NOT objective. Nothing about Srebrenica, Vukovar, Skabrnja, Omarska, Dubrovnik and so on. Please Southfront.. opinions are different but this is nonsens
I basically agree that both Kosovo and Krajina are truly Serbian along with a good portion of Bosinia. But as they are Serbia Vojvodina is Hungary and must be returned to Hungary after being stolen by the traitorous treaty of Trianon. This will happen as the Anglozionist cabal is in grave danger of falling into the dustbin of history.
If you think you can get Vojvodina from us, try it. If not, do not bring it up at all. It will do no good for either of us.
Saker lives in riches in Florida, USA. He actually posts major entries to his blog crying about his ‘misfortunes’ when he gets the flu, or stubs his toe, but bans people if they dare insist on looking at the suffering of ordinary people in East Ukraine or Syria. To Saker, a weak supine Putin who NEVER makes a strobg move against the West is a “good” Putin. And he begs for money on a regular basis despite the fact that HIS blog costs pennies to run, not like this site.
Saker was dead set agaisnt Putin invading Ukraine, and forcing the PEACEFUL partition of that nation. Saker promised the sanctions that the West imposed upon Russia would be over in months, then when that palpable mistruth was obviously revealed by time, claimed that sanctions do Russia “good”. Saker wanted the Ukraine situation to be never ending, and the region becoming a cancerous sore on Russia’s key flank. Draw your own conclusions.
Saker is a rabid orthodox ‘white Russian’, so of course he supports the worst forces in Serbia, the vicious murderous fools who played into the hands of Tony Blair, and caused the Serb people to lose Kosovo FOR GOOD.
Saker’s message is the favourite zionist message to fools on our side. “The West is weak”. “America is weak.” “NATO is going to fall apart”. “The West is broke” etc etc etc. Let me tell you something. During the rise of nazism long before WW2, embedded secret nazi agents in the UK and USA spread the same types of lies about nazi Germany, so nazi Germany would be left alone as long as possible.
Russia is an Empire Power. Why doesn’t it act like one? Saker represents a powerful body that parasiticly attaches to any Russian leader and tells them they can NEVER act like the Americans do. So Britain can invade and the USA can invade for alll the wrong reasons, but Russia must NEVER invade for the right ones.
Yugoslavia went bad because Russia- the empire power with the biggest investment- didn’t step in and fix things- which meant defusing ethnic tensions and allowing the old Yugoslavia to split in three. It split anyway, after the West empowered warmongers on all sides to engage in a bloody civil war. And Serbia lost Kosovo to the Albanians- so a little more hurt and humiliation could be imposed on Russia.
An NO, just cos Yugolsalvia had to split (like czechoslovakia), doesn’t mean other nation like Syria should split. Yugoslavia was SYNTHETIC. Czechoslovakia was SYNTHETIC. Syria is ancient, like Iran.
No-one who chooses to have their family live in the USA can claim to speak on behalf of Russian interests- Saker lives in the self-same land where that Russian traitor who purposely ruined Russian international sport lives in Witness protection.
Anyone who speaks AGAINST a strong Russia acting boldly, as Saker does, should not be trusted. Russia acted boldly in Crimea, but there it literally had no choice. It didn’t act boldly in Syria, allowing the West to ruin that nation. The very LATE intervention in Syria looked more like turning Syria into a live fire training ground for the Russian military- a place to try out new weapons and tactics. For sure Syria was ‘saved’ in the end by Russia, but how many innocent Syrians had their lives ruined in the meantime?
Russia won’t even use its legal right at the UN to throw the USA out of Syria, and Russia STILL votes in favour of the West’s UN resolutions.
Tony Blair’s Kosovo War- for that war was 100% Blair’s responsibility- was Blair’s blatant attempt to get the US army to engage in its first major land war since Vietnam (the First Gulf War was an AIR WAR). But the USA was sh-t scared of Serbian use of Russian weapons and tactics, and refused to do so. As a result Team Blair chose the route of 9/11, the false-flag that changed everything. Blair’s invasion of Iraq was the greatest ground war in Human History.
Iran is the final part of the 9/11 project- which too many here have forgotten. Everything else is a distraction, misdirection, or a potential road to war on Iran. And Iran is to usher in the normalisation of the use of nuclear weapons.
Kosovo isnt lost, specially not for good, and specially not in caps. On the contrary.
Russia couldn’t even defuse conflicts between republics of USSR, how should it have done differently in a “non-aligned” state?
Saker lives in riches in Florida, USA. That has nothing to do with the topic except to discredit the author personally.
Kosovo is Serbia. I was one of many who had their eyes finally opened as to the true nature of NATO and the ‘west’ by the illegal and completely unjustified attack on the Serbs The attack on Serbia and the Serbian people – on behalf of yet another US created islamic terrorist organization – the KLA – wahhabi aligned – was inexcusable and the greatest war crime in Europe post 1945. I recommend googling ‘Jasenovac’ Take a look at the history of the Serbian suffering for the allies in WW2. It was a Death camp – in the fullest sense of the word. The Nazi aligned Croats slaughtered their prisoners with such barbarity the Gestapo was appalled. And we repaid the Serbs courage and bravery in that war – where they kept whole German divisions tied down – by bombing them back to the stoneage quote Wesley ‘WACO’ Clark and watching them ethnically cleansed from their own province of Kosovo – 250,000 of them – raped, looted and murdered as General Mike ‘Bloody Sunday’ Jackson looked on . Two butchers specifically chosen for the job. Excellent article by acclaimed journalist John Pilger. Milosevic has been declared innocent – too late as he was almost certainly murdered in his prison cell and the Serbian people cleared of of mass graves and ethnic cleansing. Lies on a parallel with the next illegal attack and mass western slaughter by the Axis of absolute evil – US/UK/NATO – in Iraq. http://johnpilger.com/articles/provoking-nuclear-war-by-media
…and I recommend sticking to the issue at hand. Serbia didn’t lose Kosovo because “The Nazi aligned Croats slaughtered their prisoners with such barbarity the Gestapo was appalled.”. It did on it’s own merit and thanks to Russian roulette policy of it’s politicians in 1980-90s. Milosevic was the US man inside YU politics in 1980s – fresh from his cushy job in NY and with US State Department connections. He was publicly endorsed by James Baker in 1990 and given the green light for YNA to crush demonstrations in Belgrade and to start the war. Jasenovac is not to blame for the fact that ever since 1912 every single Serbian government – royal and communist alike, had a policy of oppressing and exterminating local population. So in order to stick to the subject I suggest googling Massacres of Albanians in the Balkan Wars…
j Jasenovac is pertinent to the history leading up to the slaughter and ethnic cleansing of some estimated 350,000 Serbs driven off their ancestral lands of the Krajina – Croatia. The article specifically mentions this. Looks like you are trying to hide the past. How about the 20,000 Serbs alleged to have been murdered in this brutal act against the Serbs. The rapes and looting.
It’s actually 70.000+ Serbs murdered in Jasenovac. Nobody is hiding the past. But Saker is wrong in thinking he’s doing Serbia a favor by making excuses for their mistakes all over the map – and not in Serbia itself. You really think that 10.000s Albanians killed in last 100 years didn’t really play any part in Empire’s plans to fracture the region in that exact spot. They didn’t pick Sumadia or Vojvodina for “humanitarian war” experiment. Now I don’t rejoice in the fact that a part of sovereign country was torn away illegally – unlike some morons that think it can’t happen to their country if Empire wills it. But quoting other proples crimes in order to excuse your own crimes (that predate them by decades!!!) and criminally stupid politics – doesn’t help your cause in the least…
You are precisely doing that, hiding the past, when you diminish the number of murdered in Jasenovac by a tenfold. Although its never a question of “just” Jasenovac, but the whole system of death camps in the Independent State of Croatia, including Gradiska, Jastrebarsko, Pag, Velebit, countless pitholes across Dalmatian hinterlands, and so on.
I honestly believe that most Croats really believe in that story of 70.000 dead, or even 20.000 as Tudjman has claimed in his book. It must be easier to swallow ten times less of a crime. Its understandable, but its also wrong, doesnt correlate with the truth and we Serbs are utterly disgusted by such self denials.
Whats puzzling me is that you have your own Ustase braging about it, both those who committed the deed back then, specially when they thought Hitler would be victorious and bragging about it would provide them with benefits in the Reich, but also their biological and spiritual children of today’s NeoUstase. You sing songs in praise of the Ustase monsters, celebrating them like “mesari” literally meaning “butchers”, like in this song, which says that “Jasenovac and Old Gradiska is the house of Maks’s (Luburic, Ustase commandant of Jasenovac at one time) butchers”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOn4tiRHmoA
To reply on all 5 parts of your elaborate brain droppings. The fact that so many of you still choose to live in the myths and nationalist lies is precise the reason you lost Kosovo and had your people from across Drina leave their ancestral homes for good. I find your question “What criminal policy” combined with “Serb were partisans and chetnicks and POW and dead of Jasenovac…” and …”Croats were only Ustashe…” quite revealing . And quite helpful to Serbias enemies too. A country so afraid of it past as to create elaborate myths of greatness, martyrdom and “victories in defeat” is bound to repeat it – down to every single tragedy…
Well you can find it anyway you like, but thats the truth. The truth is so much different than what you have been thought and lied about, that it is only normal that you find it hard to believe. YES, we were both majority in the Partizan units AND the Cetniks, with some even filling up Nedic’s SDS AND Ljotic’s ZBOR units. We were, and still are, the most numerous People of ex Yugoslavia, and we had, as a People/Nation, interests and incentives to fight on all those sides.
Croats, on the other hand, joined up Ustase AND Domobrani units predominantly, with small minority of Croatians joining up the Partizan units in the beginning, which later changed from 1943. onward, due to the reason i explained above. Croats also had their motives and incentives for joining the Hitler coalition.
If you wanna refute anything i am saying, please do, offer something tangible, a piece of information we can scrutinize, and not just your opinions on the subject.
As for our myth of greatness and martyrdom, they arent only ours. Ethics of Kosovo represent a major influence on the Russian statebuilding thought, and especially after the Ivan the Terrible, was the cornerstone piece, a lesson in history, culture, religion, statecraft and war making. Our experience is an important and glorious one for anyone interested in the “human condition” and the human equation, and everyone who doesnt have something personal against us Serbs, can see that and enjoy learning from our past.
So you see, we are not afraid of our history, its only your own projection. We are, in fact, in love with our history, more than it is healthy for us, someone would probably suggest. It is not irrational on our part, since our history IS glorious and breathtaking. You, Croats, have even added up on that glory with everything you have done to us in the 20th century. The last onslaught we had to endure when the combined might of the entire NATO alliance had taken us on also added to our glory. Whether you admire it or not, many nations and Peoples around the world look at us as exemplars of honor, of courage and defiance. As much as the Syrian people today are inspiring us and others with their struggle, so have we when it was our turn to resist during the nineties.
How about you mate? What has been your great achievement? Who looks up to you and for what exactly? Are we jelly and spiteful?
Love of history without an ounce of critical departure from nationalist myths – not very healthy. At least start putting random historical data into chronological order, maybe you’ll get some answers as to why you got so royally “effed” in last 100 years. If you repeatedly fought wars with each and every neighbor you have – including Montenegrins that are basically Serbs – maybe, just maybe some of it was your own fault. And to clarify my position fully – I have almost exactly the same type of discussion with Croatian nationalists and mythologists – you know, morons that claim Jasenovac was a sanatorium where Serbs and Jews sang operas in their spare time. I myself come from totally partisan background – both my grandfathers fought actively – and as a native of Dalmatia (since 1400s) can’t identify with any Ustashe or neo-ustashe ideals – not least because bastards sold the region to Italy. I’m also very much ad ease with constructively discussing Croatian history – 1941-45 included, but also decades preceding it. As for WW2 in YU to claim that only Serbs were partisans by 1943 is either deliberate lie or shows your lack of knowledge. After insurgency was defeated in 1941 in Serbia and Montenegro, Bosnia was the only part of the country where significant partisan presence could have been maintained. In Croatia right until the end of 1942 only small partisan detachments were organized – mostly in Serb majority area for several reasons – people were under mortal threat from Ustashe and they were armed and ready and they inhabited areas of Lika and North Dalmatia that were favorable for guerrila warfare. In addition, larger operative units – battalions and brigades – were created in and around larger towns with Croatian majority (Split, Šibenik, Sisak, Bjelovar…) and immediately transferred to Bosnia to join up with larger forces. Majority of 1942-43 fighting was in Bosnia and number of partisans in that period reflects largely ethic composition of the region. As soon as partisans got their hands on sufficient amount of equipment and started raising units in large number you see the number of ethic Croatian partisans rise sharply – simply because most of the equipment was captured in Croatia. But in order to, for example, raise 3 full brigades in 15 days in Split 1943 (town of 10.000 people) you needed to have most of the people actively supporting your cause. In any case Croatian partisans made up majority of troops right until the end of 1944 – and yes, I include ethnic Croatian Serbs in that number. To claim that those people were somehow part of Serbian partisan movement is false – just as false as Ustashe claim that those people weren’t native of the land but some kind of “newcomers” or intruders. In addition, when my time to serve my country came in 1990s, i fought, just as my grandfathers and their Serb and Croat comrades, to protect my home and my family. First guy to volunteer to ZNG in my street was Đorđe from Kistanje while my first cousin whose father was Manojlo from Lika, defended Dubrovnik fighting in the Imperial fortress. Why do you think they did? So you see history is not as straight forward as you’d like it to be. I don’t pretend that we can ever know “the whole historical truth” but putting things into perspective and looking for cause and effect will get us closer to it. As a student of history – world and local – I’m sorry to break it to you, but history of Balkan people is intriguing at best – but hardly great or glorious. There are certainly parts of it we can be proud of: from Dušan’s Code to Dubrovnik walls but in general we were always just a side note in a bigger picture. Both Croatia and Serbia lost their independence soon after they created their states – and from generally inferior and strategically disadvantaged enemy. And than we stagnated under foreign rule untill late 1800s early 1900s when both countries wanted to make up time for “lost history”. That’s when dangerous myths of “victory on Kosovo” and “glorious death of Petar Svačić” came into being. There is no “Greater Serbia” or “Great Serbian history”, just as there’s no “Greater Croatia” with border on Drina river and “Glorious Croatian history”. There’s only pain, suffering of regular anonymous people and occasional blips on the radar of human greatness. That’s all. Now I don’t say that Serbia and Croatia shouldn’t feel proud for their achievements – I just say we put those things into perspective first. And I definitely do say that both countries should look itself in the mirror before they start looking for flaws in the neighborhood.
That s actually the issue here, an attempt of equating the two – Serbs and Croatians. You know that the Croats lost their state immediately (if they ever had one at the time, we are missing any material evidence), so you copy/paste it to the Serbs as well:
– “we both lost independence right after we have gained it”. WRONG, you never had it, or lost any material evidence that you once were sovereign, but we on the other hands have both plenty of evidence and materials, enough that no history catedra in the world would deny us that. First material evidence of Serbian sovereignty, that absolutely no one can deny, is the royal seal of the Prince Strojimir, dated to IX century AD. So from the 800.s at least, we are our own masters. And we remained so up until the mid XV century AD… so thats at least 600 years of unbroken independence. If that is “losing independence right after you gained it”, then alright, you win!
– “i m having these same discussions with Croatian nationalists” so what, does that mean we are both wrong, Serbian and Croatian nationalists? Isnt it at least possible that one of those speak some truth, while the others are in total denial? Or are you again trying to equate the incomparable, just because we both have the “nationalist” sufix? Its liek saying that Ustase and Cetnici are basically the same, because one are Croat right wingers while others are Serb right wingers…. totally disrespecting the fact that Ustase had a genocidal plan, program, and means (a state with full spectrum of its tools) to see it through, while the Cetniks neither had the organization, or any such plans, as they were the reacting force, trying to defend Yugoslav/Serbian interests and lives, they have maintained no camps what so ever, let alone death camps, were considered and Allied fighting force in the Balkans, etc.
-“And than we stagnated under foreign rule untill late 1800s early 1900s when both countries wanted to make up time for “lost history” Are you so blind to see the obvious or what?We fought for our independence, non bloody stop from the 15th century onwards, and we finally managed to achieve it in 1804, and then again cementing it in 1812. It was a hard struggle, vicious, we were being punished by the Ottomans in the most gruesome ways imaginable for the whole time, and we still fought on till final victory. You, on the other hand, didnt fire a single bullet towards your freedom and independence that whole time. In fact, only a couple of years before WE liberated you from the Austrian Empire, Croats were rabid in antiSerbism, proving their loyalty to Vienna by treating Serbs like dogs. Serbs suffered several pogroms in the territory of modern day Croatia, by Croats, in the early 20th century, culminating after the assassination of Franc Ferdinand. Furthermore, Croats were fighting on the side of Austria-Hungary in that war, but unlike many other Slavic nationalities enslaved under dual monarchy and made to fight their Slavic brethren in Serbia and Russia, like Czehs, Slovaks and Poles, for example, Croats did not desert the Austrian units when given the opportunity, but zealously fought for Austria. Equivalent would be if the Serbs had spent hundreds of years fighting for Ottoman Empire against Croatia and other Slavic countries and Peoples. And even further more, it was us Serbs who bleed to liebrate what is today Croatia from Austria, and later on Italy when they attacked you. And you are ungrateful as ever. So again. WRONG.
– “There is no “Greater Serbia” or “Great Serbian history”, just as there’s no “Greater Croatia” with border on Drina river and “Glorious Croatian history”” WRONG. There is a Greater Croatia in effect today, encompassing territories and Peoples it never once occupied, if we count out the WW2 period, unless you want to count that in, which would be fun. Serbia, on the other hand, is almost as “great” as she was when she first liberated herself from the Ottomans, some 200 years ago. Also, there is no glorious Croatian history, since there almost is no separate and independent Croatian history to begin with. Serbia is a completely different story, but its kinda pointless for me to keep proving you otherwise. I m content to let others decide on that.
And the fact that you consider yourself a “lefty” and an internal opposition to your hard core right wingers of the Ustase brand, as your society doesnt have a different kind, does not speak so much about you, but speaks volumes about Croatian society today. From my experience, those inter-Croatian fractions disagree on almost every topic, except when it comes to the Serbian question. Then you all agree that your fathers and grandfathers had killed “only” between 20.000-70.000 innocent Serbian men and woman, old and young. You all agree that Serbs “had it coming”, for everything we suffered in the 20th century and in the last civil war in Yugoslavia. You all agree that todays Croatia is “normal and natural” Croatia, even though you never had those borders in history, if we discard the internal Yugoslav border, which were just that – internal, and a product of comprehensive internal compromises, and not a stepping stone for your independence and in those borders. And if we discard the ISoC. You all even agree that Serbia should lose Kosovo and that its only fair. It is you who are delusional, believing yourself to be a socialist. Yea, right, like Tudjman was a socialist.
/not sure why this was detected as spam the first try…/
That s actually the issue here, an attempt of equating the two – Serbs and Croatians. You know that the Croats lost their state immediately (if they ever had one at the time, we are missing any material evidence), so you copy/paste it to the Serbs as well:
– “we both lost independence right after we have gained it”. WRONG, you never had it, or lost any material evidence that you once were sovereign, but we on the other hands have both plenty of evidence and materials, enough that no history catedra in the world would deny us that. First material evidence of Serbian sovereignty, that absolutely no one can deny, is the royal seal of the Prince Strojimir, dated to IX century AD. So from the 800.s at least, we are our own masters. And we remained so up until the mid XV century AD… so thats at least 600 years of unbroken independence. If that is “losing independence right after you gained it”, then alright, you win!
– “i m having these same discussions with Croatian nationalists” so what, does that mean we are both wrong, Serbian and Croatian nationalists? Isnt it at least possible that one of those speak some truth, while the others are in total denial? Or are you again trying to equate the incomparable, just because we both have the “nationalist” sufix? Its liek saying that Ustase and Cetnici are basically the same, because one are Croat right wingers while others are Serb right wingers…. totally disrespecting the fact that Ustase had a genocidal plan, program, and means (a state with full spectrum of its tools) to see it through, while the Cetniks neither had the organization, or any such plans, as they were the reacting force, trying to defend Yugoslav/Serbian interests and lives, they have maintained no camps what so ever, let alone death camps, were considered and Allied fighting force in the Balkans, etc.
-“And than we stagnated under foreign rule untill late 1800s early 1900s when both countries wanted to make up time for “lost history” Are you so blind to see the obvious or what?We fought for our independence, non bloody stop from the 15th century onwards, and we finally managed to achieve it in 1804, and then again cementing it in 1812. It was a hard struggle, vicious, we were being punished by the Ottomans in the most gruesome ways imaginable for the whole time, and we still fought on till final victory. You, on the other hand, didnt fire a single bullet towards your freedom and independence that whole time. In fact, only a couple of years before WE liberated you from the Austrian Empire, Croats were rabid in antiSerbism, proving their loyalty to Vienna by treating Serbs like dogs. Serbs suffered several pogroms in the territory of modern day Croatia, by Croats, in the early 20th century, culminating after the assassination of Franc Ferdinand. Furthermore, Croats were fighting on the side of Austria-Hungary in that war, but unlike many other Slavic nationalities enslaved under dual monarchy and made to fight their Slavic brethren in Serbia and Russia, like Czehs, Slovaks and Poles, for example, Croats did not desert the Austrian units when given the opportunity, but zealously fought for Austria. Equivalent would be if the Serbs had spent hundreds of years fighting for Ottoman Empire against Croatia and other Slavic countries and Peoples. And even further more, it was us Serbs who bleed to liebrate what is today Croatia from Austria, and later on Italy when they attacked you. And you are ungrateful as ever. So again. WRONG.
– “There is no “Greater Serbia” or “Great Serbian history”, just as there’s no “Greater Croatia” with border on Drina river and “Glorious Croatian history”” WRONG. There is a Greater Croatia in effect today, encompassing territories and Peoples it never once occupied, if we count out the WW2 period, unless you want to count that in, which would be fun. Serbia, on the other hand, is almost as “great” as she was when she first liberated herself from the Ottomans, some 200 years ago. Also, there is no glorious Croatian history, since there almost is no separate and independent Croatian history to begin with. Serbia is a completely different story, but its kinda pointless for me to keep proving you otherwise. I m content to let others decide on that.
And the fact that you consider yourself a “lefty” and an internal opposition to your hard core right wingers of the Ustase brand, as your society doesnt have a different kind, does not speak so much about you, but speaks volumes about Croatian society today. From my experience, those inter-Croatian fractions disagree on almost every topic, except when it comes to the Serbian question. Then you all agree that your fathers and grandfathers had killed “only” between 20.000-70.000 innocent Serbian men and woman, old and young. You all agree that Serbs “had it coming”, for everything we suffered in the 20th century and in the last civil war in Yugoslavia. You all agree that todays Croatia is “normal and natural” Croatia, even though you never had those borders in history, if we discard the internal Yugoslav border, which were just that – internal, and a product of comprehensive internal compromises, and not a stepping stone for your independence and in those borders. And if we discard the ISoC. You all even agree that Serbia should lose Kosovo and that its only fair. It is you who are delusional, believing yourself to be a socialist. Yea, right, like Tudjman was a socialist.
What seems to be the problem, why cant i add replies without them being counted as spam?
Don’t know. It works from my end…
I was trying to ask the mods, still no reply and they flag my every response as spam… excluding these ones naturally.
In any case, i have a lot to reply but am unable here at the moment…
That s actually the issue here, an attempt of equating the two – Serbs and Croatians. You know that the Croats lost their state immediately (if they ever had one at the time, we are missing any material evidence), so you copy/paste it to the Serbs as well:
– “we both lost independence right after we have gained it”. WRONG, you never had it, or lost any material evidence that you once were sovereign, but we on the other hands have both plenty of evidence and materials, enough that no history catedra in the world would deny us that. First material evidence of Serbian sovereignty, that absolutely no one can deny, is the royal seal of the Prince Strojimir, dated to IX century AD. So from the 800.s at least, we are our own masters. And we remained so up until the mid XV century AD… so thats at least 600 years of unbroken independence. If that is “losing independence right after you gained it”, then alright, you win!
– “i m having these same discussions with Croatian nationalists” so what, does that mean we are both wrong, Serbian and Croatian nationalists? Isnt it at least possible that one of those speak some truth, while the others are in total denial? Or are you again trying to equate the incomparable, just because we both have the “nationalist” sufix? Its liek saying that Ustase and Cetnici are basically the same, because one are Croat right wingers while others are Serb right wingers…. totally disrespecting the fact that Ustase had a genocidal plan, program, and means (a state with full spectrum of its tools) to see it through, while the Cetniks neither had the organization, or any such plans, as they were the reacting force, trying to defend Yugoslav/Serbian interests and lives, they have maintained no camps what so ever, let alone death camps, were considered and Allied fighting force in the Balkans, etc.
Pushing theory that Croatia never had sovereignty and that Serbia, presumably, achieved it’s in the times of the dinosaurs proves my point just how mentally unhealthy national chauvinism without historical perspective really is. In that sense neo-ustashe and neo-chetnichs are brothers in stupidity. Cheers. As far as WW2, when these idiots didn’t cooperate against partisans, or just blindly following orders from their German and Italian masters, they both contemplated genocide. Ustashe had an organised government and were able to do it on more industrial scale, while chetnicks were forced to do it labor-intensive way. Still killing 50K Croatian and Muslim civilians manually is an effortn that shows a criminal conviction au pair to those of Ustashe. In addition, don’t forget that Draža and Moljevic had prepared a program of “homogenization of Serbian lands” to be implemented after presumable western allies+chetnick victory. So your only problem is that Ustashe beat you to it. My problem is that 10s of Ks innocent people on both sides died by the hands of traitors, criminals and psyhos.
Its not a theory, its scientific fact. My version of course, not your hyperbolic take on it. Be real, no one mentioned the dinosaurs, i said IX century AD, or older.
http://www.bktvnews.com/images/2015/12/25/56aeaf12e4b0e9a616ca1104-1085x650x11.jpg
Here is the Strojimir’s seal as evidence.
And since i know for a fact that no Croatian state or statesman existed at the time, or that at the very least no material evidence of it was saved. So you see, you can laugh at me all you want but you are just laughing at yourself. Whats even more amusing to me is that its no shame if you cant compare your history with ours… Norwegians certainly cant compare, neither can the Czechs for example, but they arent trying to make up their history in order to look older. You on the other hand, must do it and must keep doing it or your whole anti-Serbian agenda will fall down like a house of cards.
And whats this about 50k Croatian and Muslim civilians killed by the Cetniks? Where did you even come up with that number? If i understood you correctly, Cetniks murdered 50k of your civilians in a “labor intensive way” fighting their guerrilla war, but you only managed to kill 70k of our civilians in your death camps with full force and organization of the state behind you? And this fact checking portfolio of yours somehow doesnt make you a moron?
-“And than we stagnated under foreign rule untill late 1800s early 1900s when both countries wanted to make up time for “lost history” Are you so blind to see the obvious or what?We fought for our independence, non bloody stop from the 15th century onwards, and we finally managed to achieve it in 1804, and then again cementing it in 1812. It was a hard struggle, vicious, we were being punished by the Ottomans in the most gruesome ways imaginable for the whole time, and we still fought on till final victory. You, on the other hand, didnt fire a single bullet towards your freedom and independence that whole time. In fact, only a couple of years before WE liberated you from the Austrian Empire, Croats were rabid in antiSerbism, proving their loyalty to Vienna by treating Serbs like dogs. Serbs suffered several pogroms in the territory of modern day Croatia, by Croats, in the early 20th century, culminating after the assassination of Franc Ferdinand. Furthermore, Croats were fighting on the side of Austria-Hungary in that war, but unlike many other Slavic nationalities enslaved under dual monarchy and made to fight their Slavic brethren in Serbia and Russia, like Czehs, Slovaks and Poles, for example, Croats did not desert the Austrian units when given the opportunity, but zealously fought for Austria. Equivalent would be if the Serbs had spent hundreds of years fighting for Ottoman Empire against Croatia and other Slavic countries and Peoples. And even further more, it was us Serbs who bleed to liebrate what is today Croatia from Austria, and later on Italy when they attacked you. And you are ungrateful as ever. So again. WRONG.
– “There is no “Greater Serbia” or “Great Serbian history”, just as there’s no “Greater Croatia” with border on Drina river and “Glorious Croatian history”” WRONG. There is a Greater Croatia in effect today, encompassing territories and Peoples it never once occupied, if we count out the WW2 period, unless you want to count that in, which would be fun. Serbia, on the other hand, is almost as “great” as she was when she first liberated herself from the Ottomans, some 200 years ago. Also, there is no glorious Croatian history, since there almost is no separate and independent Croatian history to begin with. Serbia is a completely different story, but its kinda pointless for me to keep proving you otherwise. I m content to let others decide on that.
And the fact that you consider yourself a “lefty” and an internal opposition to your hard core right wingers of the Ustase brand, as your society doesnt have a different kind, does not speak so much about you, but speaks volumes about Croatian society today. From my experience, those inter-Croatian fractions disagree on almost every topic, except when it comes to the Serbian question. Then you all agree that your fathers and grandfathers had killed “only” between 20.000-70.000 innocent Serbian men and woman, old and young. You all agree that Serbs “had it coming”, for everything we suffered in the 20th century and in the last civil war in Yugoslavia. You all agree that todays Croatia is “normal and natural” Croatia, even though you never had those borders in history, if we discard the internal Yugoslav border, which were just that – internal, and a product of comprehensive internal compromises, and not in any way a stepping stone for your independence in those borders. You all even agree that Serbia should lose Kosovo and that its only fair. You will disagree with your Ustase on every NATO intervention around the world, perhaps, but when it comes to the NATO war on Serbia, you are all best buddies, etc..
It is you who are delusional, believing yourself to be a socialist. Yea, right, like Tudjman was a socialist.
Being anti moron doesn’t make me lefty – it makes me, well not a moron. On the other hand your blind hate of Croatia and Croatians, in addition to Muslim, Albanians and Bulgarians i suppose, make you – pathetic. Basic rule in history and nature is that every action creates reaction. If you really want to understand why all of your neighbors don’t want anything to do with you and why most of them helped in one way or the other NATO to bomb you in 1999, – first look inwards. Your historical and political theories are really shallow. You negate even the existence of certain nations, which means that, if the history came out differently, in your opinion, they would have a choice to either consider themselves Serbs, or die. Not very intelligent and not very original – Ustashe have the same idea. Serbia’s Napoleon Complex is on of the biggest sources of pain and suffering in the Balkans in last 150 years. The idea that a semi-autonomous principality of mostly illiterate pig farmers can be a “Slavic Piedmont” is as laughable today as it was 150 years ago. Especially since your “glorious rediviva” started with pogroms of Turks, Slavic Muslims and Albanians, interrupted by an occasional regicide. You attacked the Turks in 1876 and lost – then you hitched a ride on the wagons of Russian victory. Same thing you did in 1914-18. 7 year into your independence you had your first war of aggression attacking Bulgaria – and you got your ass handed to you by an army whose highest rank was that of a captain. Decade and a half latter you became “famous” again for slaughtering your king and his wife along with dozens of “suspects” but also the members of conspiracy. In Balkan wars , after stabbing your allies in the back, again, you became “so famous” again that worlds journalists and politicians covering Serbian massacres of Albanians, Turks and Macedonians were forced to invent a new word for those atrocities – ethic cleansing. Even Leon Trocky, a guy quite OK with mass killings was shocked – and that’s saying something. 2 years later, by 1914. UK press was calling for “carving Serbia form the continent and drowning it in the sea” – calling it a savage country that killed 2 crowned heads and their spouses in a space of a decade. Congratulations. Let’s finish this potpurri with an almost amusing fact that in 1918 prince Alexander managed to cheat his own grandfather out of the Montenegrin throne – a “glorious” achievement no doubt. Subsequent insurgency that claimed 1000s of lives of people that considered themselves “more Seb the Serbs themselves” is no doubt a part of “glorious Serbian history” you were ranting about.. Today Montenegro is in NATO, just to spite Serbia. Congrats again. But all this doesn’t really matter. Serbia is only an innocent victim of neighboring non-countries that just hate it for no good reason, wicked West and The Vatican of course… In fact, reading your rants one can come to a conclusion that Serbia is so not responsible for their own deeds that it can hardly be considered a country at all. Just a lunatic asylum on the far edge of the continent. Now in other circumstances it could have been a reason for rejoicing if a good part of Croatian public wasn’t nationalist basket cases themselves, that should be placed in the same clinic with you and yours – and then throw away the key…
First of all, thats you impression, and a false one at that, that all of our neighbors want nothing to do with us. That simply cant be further than the truth. Romanians have a saying “our two best friends in this world are the Black sea and the Serbs”. Hungarians know us from the time we were allies from the XII and XIII centuries, and have known us through good and bad, holding massive respect to their former foe, now a potential close ally in the new Europe that will emerge. the Greeks love us (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oezuFoT4-yA), Bulgarians hold massive respect as well, ordinary People especially, know our language, listening to all of our music, Macedonians never wanted to split from Yugoslavia in the first place, they first voted to stay, then were pressured into breaking away, with even major assassination carried out on their leadership in 2004. for pursuing closer Serbian ties, even Albanians from Albania respect us.
But all those countries are slaves of Brussels, occupied by the New World Order, chained by lib-capitalism and neoliberal experimentation. Bulgaria, for example, gave her skies to NATO for aggression against us, only to find herself in double digits GDP free fall that year. Empire is using you and other small nations for advancing its own interests, in the Balkans as much as anywhere else in this world. We are the target, you are just tools used to try and take us down.
Of course i negate the existence of some nations. Montenegrin nation, for example, is a totally artificial violently imposed concept, with the only idea of weakening the Serbs. The fact that Croatia gained early support for her independence in 1991, was again solely motivated by the desire of Germany and Vatican in the first place, to hurt and inflict permanent damage on their enemy – Serbia (now thats the really interesting question for the Germans, how wicked spirited and complexed out could you get when your archenemy is Serbia, 10+ times smaller nation and in every aspect but culturally inferior actor), by dismantling Yugoslavia in the most violent way possible. They couldnt care less about you and your interests… “Bosnian” nation was an Austrian project of Benjamin Kalaj, again as a part of Austrian anti-Serbian policies in the Balkans, aiming to divide and conquer us. Macedonian claim on Alexander the Great and that whole ancient history is ludicrous, etc..
And i m not saying to them – declare yourself Serbs or die, ridiculous, stop projecting yourself. I m simply saying that most of those i consider Serbian in origin would be much much better of in this one life we all have to live on this Earth, if they would be in peace with their identity, coming back to their roots, living in relative harmony with the rest of the Serbs, instead of fighting them for foreign interests.
You laugh at the idea of Serbs and Serbia being the Slavic Piedmont, but your grandfathers at the time certainly did not laugh about it. Tens of thousands of Czechs, Slovaks, Slovenes, Poles, Ukranians and Russians who flocked to Serbia at the end of 19th and beginning of 20th century to be a part of that Slavic Piedmont effort, certainly did not laugh about it. The very fact that vast majority of Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Ukranians and Russians still look at us with great respect being fully aware what we mean for them, for the Slavic world, also signals that its no laughing matter.
As for your take on our wars with the Ottomans, as Turkey did not exist back then, i really cant be bothered. You are just ridiculous with those attempt at presenting yourself as not being an Ustasa, when you demonstrate their very logic. Everything that the Serbs have ever done is a lie, or at best, its something to be laughed at and ridiculed. When i say we had a state in the XI century, you compare that with the dinosaurs. When i say we fought fiercely for our independence against a brutal occupier of a brutal religion bent on dominating us, for hundreds of years, in such a way that even Ottoman subjects in India at the time were admiring us because were were the first to win our independence, than its all Russian credit. The fact that it was US who liberated ourselves first in the Balkans and that it was US who rallied smaller Balkan nations around us in both Yugoslavia is of no importance, because we were “illiterate pig farmers”. You go as far as to cite Leon Trocky, a guy with disputable reputation even in your book, unless he speaks about the Serbs, than he s alright… i mean, maybe you dont see a pattern, but unbiased reader will surely see it.
As for the Serbian responsibility, yes, we are responsible. But we did most damage to us and not to anyone else. We allowed ourself to be robbed and betrayed by you and others. A lesson hard learned but much needed. We will survive and prosper… you, however, have much grimmer future before you. This Greater Croatia you live in is reaching its expiration date. As soon as NATO starts packing from this part of the world, as soon as Camp Bondsteel starts dismantling, you ll be in deep shit.
No, we did not “lose” (its such a finite term, totally inappropriate) Kosovo because of anything vile that the Croatians had done in the past, although Croatians did help the heroin, guns and people traffickers of the KLA to gain their narco-statelet, if only for a few short years.
And we did not “lose” Kosovo because of Milosevic. Even if we take your logic as true, as an American agent the blame for his actions could only go to the Americans as the most responsible player at the table. Whats more, Kosovo declared its so called “independence” in 2008., while Milosevic has been handed to the Hague in 2001. and was already dead in his cell by 2006., while Serbia has had the Western backed “democratic” leadership from the October of 2000. to this very day.
And that defamation against Serbia is something you ll have to corroborate with anything tangible. Who did we oppress and exterminate, ever, not just at the timetable you are pointing at?
Serbia was anything but the monster you portray her. Since it was the first to liberate itself from the Ottoman yoke, and since it had very progressive elites and freedom loving People, it quickly became a model for every small nation from Adriatic to the Caspian Sea, and from the Baltic to Suez…. and even further all the way to the Mughal provinces of India. People were emigrating to Serbia from Georgia, Armenia, Palestine, Kurdistan, Greece, Poland, Romania, Czechia, Slovakia, Slovenia, you name it… and all were welcomed, made names for themselves in Serbian history, many of those immigrants. Serbia of that time, you are describing, was already a “small America”, in terms of the “Serbian dream” that was mesmerizing oppressed People of the time.
I m guessing you havent read the Black Lamb and Grey Falcon by Rebecca West, have you?
The leader of Serbian minority was found hanged on the hinge of the prison cell door on the outside during his trial in Hague just like the key witness in deference of Ratko Mladic an university professor and forensic expert was found dead in his hotel room not long ago. Countless crimes of those evil Serbians.
Indeed. And if you fight for your country and people as did Karadzic, Mladic and Milosevic – that is a enough to damn you. You must never fight against western created. armed. trained and financed islamic fundamentalist terrorists. The crime of all three of the above. Sebrenica. Why does no one ask what thousands of islamic males were doing in a small market town. It was a KLA military islamic base. A base used for the mass killing, raping and looting of all the surrounding farms and villages. Mass beheadings, When Mladic – God bless him – determined on any retribution – he is the one imprisoned. What a gross injustice. Just take a look at this and weep for the really murdered. http://barenakedislam.com/2015/07/10/the-disaster-that-bill-clinton-created-in-bosnia-by-backing-muslims-against-the-serbs-has-now-become-next-front-for-the-islamic-state-isis-caliphate/
A map of “Greater Albania” which includes Albania, Kosovo, Macedonia and parts of Greece, Serbia and Montenegro. https://static01.nyt.com/images/2011/11/21/opinion/21borderlines-albania/21borderlines-albania-blog427-v2.jpg
Albania is hard core muslim. A criminal narco state with links to Saudi. Its expansion is part of the islamification of Europe by the globalists like Sharia May and the EU.
How Kosovo went from 60% Serb in 1929 to 10% Serv in 1996. https://www.truthinmedia.org/images/kos-dem.gif
Serbs are first civilization in Europe. 5000 years B.C. All European nations are descendants of us as well as Russians and Ukrainians. Go and educate yourslef !
Just read on academic portals like academia.edu archaeologic and history finding as well as genetic findings of mr. Anatolij Kljosov. Search for terms Stracevo, Vinca etc.
We ruled with half of Europe for centuries. toponymes in Germany and archeological findings like Arcana in North Germany. Celts and Gals are our vine.
Metropolis> religion, alphabet, streets, culture, pottery, domestic animals, big, really big settlement, trade etc.
Lepenski Vir 8500 B.C.
Educate yourself. Nazi bastards stole our sacred symbols like svastika and kolovrat that you can find on vases 5000 B.C. found in locality Starcevo near Belgrade – first metropolis in the world ! They are symbolize positive movement and prosperity.
We Serbs are not into jewish propaganda and first propaganda book Bible. We are more intelligent than this. This is for stupid masses that believe in propaganda religions.
Our religion is Rodna Vera – protect and live with mother nature and biggest entities of it all -Earth ( GEA )
The truth is that this is Roman Empire conspiracy to divide great Slavic tribe that ruled all Balkans and half of Europe including Germany that Byzantine could not win. So our religion is not false Orthodox or Catholic religion but our Rodna Vera. Those two are planted by the Byzantine into Bulgarian and Serbian court and falsify our first letter that can be found on vases 5000 B.C. from Starcevo first world metropola near Belgrade as well as falsify our religion Rodna Vera. They killed numerous Serbs that didn’t want to change their religion and also build churches on places where are Serbian shrines.
Academia.edu search Starcevo, Vinca, Lepenski Vir and try to read archeological surveys. Also educate yourself about true history and all religion to find out real truth
Unite all Slavic people in one great Slavic nation again and rule the Europe and World !
RISING OF THE GREAT SLAVIC NATION IS NEAR !
Let’s call it for what it is shall we? The HOLOHAUX. They are getting scared now…extremely nervous, because the pillar on which they built their whole lie of German reparations and fabricated human fat soap bars, lampshade skins, Ann Frankenstein and the boy in striped pyjamas is all starting to fall apart. There are so many holes in the whole charade that even a 6th grader can now smell a rat . . .