SDF Vows To Prevent Any Corridor Between Iran And ‘Syrian Regime’ – Media

America has no aim they do what their slave master Israel orders them to do. Look up the Yinon plan if you want to know what this is all about.

I consider a nation with no moral standards extremely poor and wretched.

Yea try to be objective.

Thats besides the point. Look at Household debt for instance. Do you have a maxed out visa? I sure do and almost everybody else does.

If the majority of thé population is broke and the goverment is broke and corrupt, how is this Sustainable??

Remember 2008?? I sure do. And thé Banks got bailed out for their irresponsable policies. And kept right on going.

North Americans are broke, were sick and we are tired of being lied to every goddamned Day by our stupid corrupt goverments.

Thats reality , and we waste our time with frivolous issues like trans rights, or à stupid statue.

Makes me sick

Rant over Thanks

Your history is correct though as a traditional ally of Russia, it was most likely Serbias KGB buddies.

btw, there was an ethnic cleansing, started by the serbs on occupied croatian cities like Vukovar.

At the time of the final counterattack by Croatias reconstuted army on the occupied territories, thanks to propaganda out of Serbis, the croatian serbs were so afraid that more then 90% fled to Serbia.

I know a lot about ex YU history. And I stand behind my observations about Milosevic. He was a representative of biggest Serbian bank – Beobanka – in NY. During that time he became close friend with Lawrence Eagleberger – US vice sec. of state during 1990s. Also the real shooting war in ex YU started after James Baker came for an official visit and publicly supported “unity” of the country in a joint press conference with Milosevic in Belgrade. Army officers loyal to Milosevic took that as an US blessing and the tanks started rolling. Although Russians were traditional Serb allies in 1990-91 Russia was all messed up and wasn’t in a position to help…

Well, the problem with that story is that Slovenia declared independence from Yugoslavia and Yugoslav Army sent troops to protects borders while Milosevic was just president of Serbia and did not have command over the Yugoslav Army. So, neither the action (Slovenia’s breaking away from Yugoslavia) nor reaction of the Army wasn’t Milosevic doing. The Army retreated after a month and Slovenia was allowed to go its on way. The problem occurred when Croatia wanted to go the same way, but Serbs living in Croatia wanted to stay in Yugoslavia. Milosevic was a scapegoat and proclaimed guilty for all the wars in ex-Yugoslavia in the same way Assad is guilty for everything in Syria, at least according western media.

Milosevic was declared NOT GUILTY of any ACCUSATIONS in 1 Quartal of 2016 in the International Tribunal. Or what ever the courts Name was.

Let us Deceide that this was the first step into Deveide and Counquer the eastern Block of europe after the UDSSR fall. All or Mostly all of the Balkan states are Rouge States now in think in Macedonia is an OPENLY Mafioso on the Ruling Stick. And all the others are even worse then in the times of the last years of the UDSSR.

You mean the president of Montenegro. Yeah, I totally agree – breaking up of Yugoslavia was a western project and CIA had plans for that even in 1970’s. Now all the ex-Yu countries are American and German puppets.

The German intelligence services started to actively contact and cooperate with both Croatian intelligence and nationalist factions in 1970’s and they made point to instruct Croats to remove any Croatian-Serbs from within Croatian intelligence services. The Germans wanted to reconquest their western Balkan sphere of influence and impose market control over Slovenia and Croatia from 1970’s on-wards. May recall, that the US State Department explicitly called the Croatian unilateral break-away in early 90’s under hardcore nationalist Tujdman’s leadership as, ‘the German foreign minister’s war’, due to the German state’s immediate recognition of breakaway announcement and pledge of full political and financial support to Croatia way before any intra-Yugoslav discussions had even occurred.

Milosevic was in control of YNA since early 1990. They even rolled out their tanks on the streets of Belgrade im march ’91 to crash the protests. Serbian police started to arm local Serbs well before any changes in Croatian constitution – it’s even featured in Serb documentary The Unit. You can’t compare Milosevic to Assad – Assad is fighting his own “Krajina insurgents” right now, armed and organized by neighboring countries – just like Croatia did.

Actually, there are many parallels between Milosevic and Assad. Both Yugoslavia and Syria were countries that the West (first of all the USA) wanted to break down because they didn’t control the government, had some economical interest in that, and would be the next step of beating Russia in the geopolitical arena. Both Milosevic and Assad were heavily demonized by the western media as exclusive culprits of everything bad that happened in their countries, both countries were/are under economical sanctions. In both countries, the West found forces within the country they could use to fight the government, armed them and even provided them their air support. Croatian Army was armed and organized by neighbouring countries to destroy the country (Yugoslavia), Serbs didn’t get help from anyone from abroad except few Russian volunteers. Croatia was the “insurgent” like FSA in Syria.

That is the same thing that happened to Germany before the First World War. The UK had already decided that they wanted to break down Germany into tiny pieces for economic reasons, and because the UK wants to control Europe and not face any opposition. So the UK France and US did everything to force about a war. They fractured and broke the peoples back so Europe can be invaded and colonized by foreign invaders. The UK had been doing this before the World War, and they continue to do this. Germany was a victim as was Iran and India and Syria and Lebanon and so many other nations have fallen victim to the UK-Empires of continually fracturing nations states into tiny defenseless states.

Iranian role in Bosnian war.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAiE6_yHLMY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56pEwvqR1GM

Miloshevich and Tudjman held a shared bank account in Cyprus while Croats and Serbs were killing each other. That’s a fact.

Now that my friend I totally agree with. The war was completely unnecessary and served only the people who grew rich in it. There were other ways to reconstitute SFRJ in a way that would satisfy all while keeping the core reasons for it’s establishment – defense against aggressive and bigger neighbors. The war also served as a useful experiment for US to perfect a kind of hybrid warfare they used later in Iraq, Libya, Syria…

See video link posted about fragmentation of the former Yugoslavia. There are 18 all together.

Regarding Vukovar, you probably do not know that the Croats have started killing the Serb civilians before the war.

So Croatians are not only shameless but also suicidal. And they decided to pick on the Serbs in the town just across the Serbian border with YNA almost completely loyal to Milosevic and itching for a fight. That makes sense. And bombing the place to rubble and massacring civilians and wounded prisoners after the town fell was OK then?

No, it is not OK. In 1991 Croatia continued with ideology created by Franko, Starcevic and so on. One third of the Serbs shuld be killed, one thirt expelled to Serbia and one thirt converted in to catholicism. Thus, the Croats started mass pogroms of the Serbs in 1991 in Zagreb, Dalmatia, Slavonia, Srem. The Serbs were constitutive nation in Croatia and Tudjman has erased them from the constitution.

Albanians were constitutive in Kosovo and Hungarians in Vojvodina – didn’t Milosevic start with expelling the minorities from constitutions? Crisis in YU didn’t start in ’91 – but you know that already. Serbia was on a rampage from mid 1980s and basically turned all other republics against itself. Guys face it, you fought 4 wars against your neighbors – that must be some kind of a record. And you lost all of them – that’s a record too I suppose. And all with overwhelming superiority in soldier and equipment. You wanted Greater Serbia and now even Montenegrins don’t want anything to do with you. Accept that you got your asses handed to you. Better luck next time…

Hungarians were no constitutive nation in Vojvodina. Albanians were not constitutive nation. In Croatian constitution until 1991 the country was defined as the country of the Croatian and Serbian people. In Serbian constitution Albanians and Hungarians were not mentioned as constitutive people.

Really, weren’t both regions autonomous, in effect all but regular republics with 80% Albanian majority in Kosovo. The constitution of the provinces that gave them large autonomy from Belgrade was forcefully abolished by Milosevic starting the “Yugoslav crises”…

We didn’t lose 4 wars against our neighbours, but against NATO (3 actually, Slovenia wasn’t a real war). We didn’t want anybody’s land, but just that on which we had lived as a majority for centuries stays in Yugoslavia where it already was. And all those neighbours are now NATO’s puppets that live worse than in Yugoslavia from which they escaped.

Yugoslavia was 73 years old when the war broke out and the story that “Serbian lands” were always in it is stupid. You did start 4 war and you did lose all of them. NATO joined the mess after you didn’t manage to win for 3 years, while committing numerous atrocities in the process. And don’t forget that the UN introduced arms embargo in 1991 making you the only people in the country with proper arms. And you still manage to lose. I have a nice Serbian verse for you, I think you’ll recognize it – Boj ne bije svijetlo oružje, već boj bije srce u junaka.“ Petar Petrović Njegoš…

The USA would not let the wars end until they finished the way they wanted. And there is no one in this part of Europe who can beat Croats both in number and savagery of committed atrocities, and who still brag about the victories of NATO like they were solely their own.

Nice little bubble you’re living in – I bet all those Muslims, Albanians, Macedonians and Croatians that died in various Balkan various in 20th century agree with you too. As for bragging about victories – try win a war for a change and then brag all you want. Until that happens – keeps celebrating defeats as per custom…

I wasn’t bragging about any war victories, but you were ridiculing Serbs for losing wars in the ’90s. “Try win a war for a change?” Are you serious? :) How about WW2, WW1, both Balkan wars and independence wars against Turkey in the 19th century? And where were the Croats in those times? Both world wars siding with Germans aggressors, committing atrocities and finally losing.

Not ridiculing – just stating facts. Balkan wars – won as a part of coalition of 3 countries against dying Otomans and then ganging up with your allies and your enemies against Bulgaria – and all that 105 years ago. WW1 – lost the country and 50% of total population. Surviving 10% of original army came back supported by 7 nation army – if that’s victory I’m afraid to think what would defeat look like. WW2 – forced the country into the war with mindless coup and then losing it in less then 2 weeks. It took partisans and Croat Broz for you to end up on the winning side – along with 5 other Yugoslav nations. In WW1 Croats didn’t have much choice – they weren’t very enthusiastic to go fighting on Serbian front but excelled against Italians – led by Borojević an ethic Serb that considered himself – a Croat. In WW2 – 200K ethnic Croats along with Croatian Serbs made up 5 partisan Corps by the end of 1943. No one denies the existence of ISC(NDH) but that was neither Independent, nor a State and large parts of Croatia were given to Italy. Croatians overwhelmingly supported partisans. Now don’t get me wrong friend – I’m as sceptical and dismissive towards right-wing Croats and their propaganda. I quoted Njegoš to you – I usually quote Krleža to them:” Sačuvaj me Bože srpskog junaštva i hrvatske kulture…

You do not start a conflict 1000 km away from the border of the country you want to create a pretext to go to war with. Do you? Check you logic. Logic and truth don’t work together with bias. You always need to twist your logic in order to satisfy your bias. Pure Machiavellian principle where the end justifies the means

You also don’t start a war while unarmed, being under embargo while the other guys has ALL the weapons. I think you are the guy with twisted logic here…

The Yugoslav wars were multi-sided ethnic mess stoked by the Federal leaders from the same generation, all of whom crossed over into nationalism in early 90’s – Milosevic, Tujdman and Izetbegović. Those three were all just different sides of the exact same coin. This photograph shows a Serbian victim of Croatian nationalists and irregulars at Vukovar. The victim was axed to death by Croatian militiamen, killed on November 19, 1991, at Nikole Demonje Street no 74, Vukovar, Croatia. He was positively identified by surviving relatives. The point being, that we are well used to MSM images portraying Serb’s as the only perpetrators in the ongoing western narrative about Yugoslav wars. But we never, ever, see the images of Serb’s as victims, as perpetrated by extremists on the other sides – Croatian, Albanian and Bosniak (who even had CIA/Saudi imported Afghan mujahedin operating as their gleeful jihad executioners of Orthodox Serbs). There has never been any balance in western MSM portrayal of Yugoslavia disaster.

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/aec41c39f6cf8df013c40d0263cb662a6cfd7b1b2f422bfc96abf09c79bc09a1.jpg

The story about Serb from Vukovar doesn’t add up IMHO. The city surrendered on 18th and I doubt that any Croatian militiaman had time to think of killing civilians since they were either running away or surrendering. Serbian propaganda created a lot of stories about alleged Croatian atrocities in Vukovar that later turned out to be hoax. That doesn’t mean that Serbians didn’t suffer through the conflict. As per origins of the conflict the story is long and complicated. There a 1000s of small reasons that slowly built the foundations of the conflict. I think that all YU nations had different ideas why the country existed in the first place. For Slovenes and Croats it was always a “lesser evil” of sorts – because they knew they would never be able to confront aggressive neighbors (Italy, Germany, Hungary) on their own. Serb politicians, even the communist ones, always understood YU as a kind of Serbian protectorate or at least a family in which they were always going to be “oldest sibling”. Tito wanted to clip Serbia’s wings with 1974 Constitution that promoted looser ties among republics and introduced 2 autonomous regions within Serbia. In the end it just increased Serbian resentment and flared up Albanian secessionists in Kosovo. The leaders were important part of the puzzle. But when Milosevic took power the Greater Serbia project – maybe More Assertive Serbia would be a fairer term to use – was already prepared by the Serb inteligentsia. It’s generally accepted that Croatia merely reacted to this after being silent for a decade – so called “Croatian silence”. But that’s not the whole truth either – too many people were too ready to react when the time came. The pressure simply built up and when it was about to explode there wasn’t a person or a group with enough knowledge, guts or vested interest to dismantle the bomb before it blew up…

I live in Bosnia, and was around when these things happened, so let me correct on you on some issues. There were three UN “protected” zones in Croatia until 1995: east, west and south zone inhabited by Croatian Serbs. On 1 and 2 May, the west zone was attacked by Croatian Army and police (with the consent of the US), the area was ethnically cleansed, around 30.000 people fled, around 400 were killed and more than 1000 wounded. Then in August the west zone was also attacked, more than 220.000 people fled, 7000 to 8000 were killed, many of whom after the operation was over. Nobody in the West reacted. Because the only remaining zone – the east zone – was bordering Serbia, Croats were afraid to attack, but since Serbia wanted to end 4 year long economical sanctions, it allowed the east zone to be peacefully reintegrated into Croatia. Serbs were not afraid to stay, today little less than 50% of the people of Vukovar are Serbs, but they are denied their rights, and there is still a lot of tension. Therefore, it was quite the opposite of what you said, it was not Serbian propaganda, but Croatian military actions and ethnic cleansing that made Serbs in the east afraid, but they remained because Serbia gave guarantees that wouldn’t happen here. It is funny how you guys don’t buy western mass media narratives when in concerns Syria, but totally buy into them when talking about ex Yugoslavia. But I guess there was no Internet in the ’90s, so that’s all you could hear.

You hit the essence. Repulic of Srpska Krajina has been a UN protected zone. Therefore, there can no be any “liberation of Croatia”. It was an obvios attack on the UN protected zone, the same thing if for example the Turkish forces in Cyprus attack the Greeks despite to UN peace keeping forces.

We should disregard western media and the fact that we have high speed internet and can research most issues on a moments notice and just trust particular nationalistic propaganda because it will make you feel good? There are videos on Youtube of Krajina rebels rehearsing the evacuation of civilians just like there are videos of fleeing Bosnians and Croatians in 1991-2, dead people of Zvornik being kicked by Serbian soldiers and Srebrenica civilians being shot in the head and left in ditches. There are also videos of Bosnian Serbs surrounding Sarajevo and selling it’s citizens for 900+ days – I don’t suppose we can se your face on one of those.

It seems you picked which videos to watch. Rehearsing bad scenarios is what civil defense normally does. And since Serbs in Croatia already experienced a genocide by Croatian state in WW2 and could not repel possible attack, of course they rehearsed the evacuation. Following your logic, the UK rehearsed what to do in case of German air raids, so they staged the war, and Germans were innocent. I guess nobody told you (or you don’t like that kind of info) that 40%, or 200.000 of Sarajevo’s citizens were Serbs, and most of them had to escape from the city, while thousands of unfortunate ones that stayed were imprisoned, tortured, raped and killed. But CNN never showed you that side of the war, so it didn’t happen, right?

It seems to me you don’t really give a shit about 70% that were not Serbes. And there were 530K residents of Sarajevo according to ’91 census -28% of them Serbes….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAQXy-POdt4

I watched all 18 episodes years ago. The program had a possibility to be very good and to talk objectively about WW2 in YU openly and without bias for the first time. Unfortunately the authors used the opportunity to create a piece of Greater Serbia propaganda and an excuse for future Serbian atrocities against non Serbs in 1990s wars. That’s sad because tragic destiny of victims of a war that happened 50 years before was used to create fresh victims. But propaganda obviously worked – the clip you chose is a perfect example. Total Serbian casualties of WW2 confirmed by Serbian scientists were around 520K – that includes combatants and civilians both in Serbia proper, Bosnia and Croatia. Pushing the myth of 700K, 800K or a million civilians killed by NDH serves no purpose apart from giving an excuse for future violent acts. The real numbers of victims were disgusting enough: 580K civilians and almost as much military – 10% of the population.

Just of note. There are also few videos around of Nasser Oric and his Bosniak brigades that hid amonst and operated out of UN Srebrenica safe zone and triggered the whole disaster. Apart from actively attacking the UN troops to steal their weapons, Oric’s group murdered elderly isolated ethnic Serbs in villages around the area. Oric’s intent was to deliberately provoke a direct military response from larger local Bosnian Serb forces against the UN enclave.

And did you know that Oric was a member of personal security detachment of Slobodan Milosevic right up until 1992. Coincidence? Don’t believe in those since 1990s. The guy that was coordinating Bosnian defense in the area (professional officer) was sacked in late 1992 for not sanctioning killing of Serbian civilians and POWs. All wars are messy and wars in the Balkans in particular. There’s a lot of gray shades all around and I really hate when people start distorting facts, spewing propaganda and accusing “the opponents” of “capitol crimes” claiming sainthood. No nation is inherently evil and every nation has something to be ashamed off. I hope that knobheads on all sides will learn that eventually…

If you are so good in Croatian history, why did not you mention that Croatia was one of the closest allies of the Nazy Germany? The Croats committed a genocide against the Serb population in the self-proclamed fascist state during the WW2. Regarding your clames about “one of the longest legal and political continuites”, would you be so kind and explain what happened in 12th century when Croatia lost its independence? Even the language they now call Croatian have its roots in Serbian language. One famous Serbian poet has written “that the Croats aro not brave because they do not have a fear, but because they do not have a shame”.

Independent State of Croatia was a puppet state propped by Germans and Italians. As I recall Serbia had similar arrangement headed by Milan Nedic – a guy that helped the Nazis make Belgrade the first Judenrein city in Europe. I think that number of Croatian citizens that took part in partisan resistance made quite clear what they thought about Pavelic and Hitler. During 12 centuries you mention Croatia was in personal union with Hungary – not really independent but from legal point of view a separate kingdom – just like most of European countries were at the time and GB is to this day. In the end, a Serb should be the last person to lecture on genocide or shame – after all the word ethnic cleansing was first used for Serbian atrocities against Turk, Albanian and Bulgarian civilian population during Balkan Wars – you see I know some things about Serbian history too…

First, you can not compare Nedic’s state with your country. There is no similarity because Serbia was occupied and Croatia was liberated by Nazies. So called Independent State of Croatia had one of the most terryfying concentration camps – Jasenovac. You mentioned Serbian attrocities during Balkan Wars, but what happened with Croatian attrocities in Serbia during the WW1? You obviously have selective memory. What is the problem with the Croats? All your history is fabricated. You speak about some kind of a union with Hungary. OK. As I remember, that country has been called Hungary, not Croatia. If there were large number of Croats in partizan’s unit, why the major battles in Yugoslavian front were fought in areas with dominantly Serbian population. Finally, here is a picture from Zagreb in April 1941 when you celebrated your liberation:

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/217133a471b5fc972d2573fd0a69de05b69674f1098efdda2efe8faad374a785.jpg

Croatia had Jasenovac, Serbia had Sajmište and Banjica. The fact that chetniks didn’t need formal camps and preferred to cut their victims throats and chuck them in a river makes them anti-fascists in your wonky head I suppose. There were no Croatian atrocities in WWI in Serbia – 2 Croatian army corps were transferred from Serbian front in early 1915 to Galizia and Italian front. Majority of K&k units occupying Serbia and Montenegro were German and Austrian. Your ignorance of your own regions history is stupendous – if you don’t understand the term “personal union” try Wikipedia. Majority of the fighting in WW2 was fought in the areas with Serbian population for 2 reasons: because local Serbs were in rebellion because of atrocities against them (no one in his right mind could dispute that) and because Serbs populated sparsely inhabited and mountainous areas perfect for guerilla warfare. Finally a photo of Nazis and some of their allies https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/96033e44d621175fa65aea1f58ccaf9a556aee491260507f6b95c59fc4df4fdf.jpg

You only forgot to write that concentration camp Sajmište was located in present New Belgrade which belonged to the Independent State of Croatia. Batajnica was German kamp for mainly for communists. There are also mountain areas in Slovenia but there were no important battles there. Regarding Nazis and their allies, could you please explain us who fought in the Eastern front in Stalingrad on the Nazies side? Who was Marko Mesić? Regarding Croatian attrocities in WW1, please go to Šabac and other nearby towns and get information.

25 different European nations fought on the Eastern front including one reinforced infantry regiment of approx. 5000 soldiers. A drop in the sea compared to 20K French, 30K Belgians or 50K Dutch. And nothing compared to 150K Croatians fighting in partisan units. Col. Mesic did later command a 3000 strong Yugosla legion consisting of Croatian POWs from Eastern front liberating Cacak and fighting on Syrmian front.

You are continously trying to minimize Croatian role as a Nazy ally. What does it matter how many nations fought, you were amongst them. By the way, it is interesting that many nations that fought at Stalingrad are now NATO members. Consider this discussion closed. You need too much time to respond, you are probably searching data on Wiki.

Nope, I’m having 2 more of your compatriots ganging up on me and I’d like to give you equal attention. Not trying to minimize Croatian role in WW2, just putting the facts in correct perspective. Don’t worry, I also like to do it to right wing Croatian morons too….

I only forgot about Banjica. Sajmište may have been on the other side of the river but was operated by Serb collaborators…

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/325e68e03ada744572439b84926dfc9373e0ae605147beec9f2d074c329ed979.jpg

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/daf7c50bebdbfcd47caf5f2c3b141ef5e7af86d8ba29b6b0eede3ce0daa59fef.jpg

Croatian soldiers killing the Serb https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/10c25f32b19ae5d02f60f3123e3a3730694d4870f4a222a967e44c3ff76166e5.jpg

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/050a201318aaf01777c46bc8e9b2d58ca6ffd233f3deb530e07cce1d1c8ab3df.png

Serbian children in Jasenovac

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/042bf5e2ea8461b5e8aee1b350b89a48e333a90e065f91e7678b1a63e6ab123b.jpg

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f4a677c6b60c0e25fa30c8d46c95cf67ce5714cb1b1111363711f233b726d3fe.jpg

Its crap. Serbia started WW1 and Yougoslavia was forced into an artificial strange mix state with king and not.

No wonder so many croats didnt accept the serbish lords dominating them. So the base was joining fascism as a contrast to big insisting serbish great Serbia nationalisme. Croats as that time were not just taken by nazis and Mussolini.

Of course Hitler helped, but the accets were almost all over.

Please educate yourself more. WW1 has been started by the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Serbia did not start the war. There can be no equality between Serbian nationalism and fascism. Too much watcing CNN obviously.

To much throving dirt. I stop reading here.

The most true version can be found at sites like Wikipedia.

Feel free to compare my comments with Wiki and point out where i’m wrong…

My mother was an eye witness of Ustashe atrocities during WWII as a member of Serbian minority.

I vote for most of it. But I wont split those southern slaves up as if Serbs have a patent in language. They all incl the Bosniaks came from Tjekkes and Poles – something, where slovaks and hungarians came between them.

I also allow me to mention, that serbs and muslims etnic cleansed back as revenge and more killing then that from others were done.

Very impressive way of change. That old kingdom was only 77 years 1000 years ago and hardly has anything to do with the Croatia of today. You could start by subtracting the dalmation coastlines as well. Venice being there, vatican, duke of Dubrovnoc. No croates live there as well. Everybody else did. ………………………………………………………………………………………..

I allow me to compare You and Lars. If it was a footballmatch he had the whistle and You were the hooligan.

As one old Serbian play says – first came the Serbs and then the amoebas – right? Your logic begs the response that the todays Serbs are actually illegitimate Turkish love-children, since they were under Islamic joke for 400 years – nad that they have nothing in common with Serbian kingdom of Dušan. Than you check the recent genom research and see that there are no pure blooded Croats nor Serbs. Some people for whatever reasons consider themselves Serbian, others Croatian – and that’s just fine by me. Since my family comes from Dubrovnik, saying that Croats don’t live their is stupid. and who did defend Dubrovnik in 1991/92 against Serbs and Montenegrins – Vikings? Anyway, you are hardly an impartial judge having vested interests in the argument…

People of Croatian descent outside of Croatia – the migrant diaspora – tend to be more open about the country’s past, as their investment in the current alleged ‘victim of Yugoslavia’ narrative is far less. Spent years around migrant Croatian families and they are proud of their Adriatic heritage, but also well acknowledge the past problems, and an extreme nationalist minority in the diaspora. One family are open that a distant uncle was Ustashe member, wanted post war by authorities, that used Catholic rat-lines to flee to Argentina. He abandoned his own family and left them to be executed by vengeful local partisans – whilst having a second life in Argentina himself – that family think he was a complete disgrace and coward.

Dalmatians – people from the Adriatic coast are generally much more open and liberal than the people from Dinaric interior. And that includes both Croats and Serbs. Those people overwhelmingly supported partisan movement and died in great numbers fighting against the Nazis. People that collaborated with the Nazis – bot Croats and Serbs – were in general, poor, uneducated peasants from the Croatian and Bosnian interior. Those people – like Sicilians and Afghans – use the opportunity of every new conflict to fight out ancient grievances. I’m extremely proud that my then 38 year old grandfather left his wife and 4 children to go and fight as a partisan – a volunteer. My other grandpa – 37 at the time left his pregnant wife in early 1941 and came back home for the first time in 1945. I like to think that I inherited some of their rebellious genes and hope to pass them on to my sons. I hate generalizations and despise nationalistic propaganda – this time around it’s comes from a bunch of misinformed Serbian kids, but I like to but heads with Croats extremists too.

That is very interesting point about openness of Adriatic Dalmatians. As the migrant families I know have origins from the coastline – ie Mala Duba, Split etc. By default as coastal fishermen and small traders they would have had far more exposure to other groups along coastline, both west and east. One family in particular have some interesting stories about Adriatic – that going quite far back their family had a small direct coastal house for fishing work in summer and a second house and land higher up in hills for orchard grove, but also apparently, to send the family up to in era when there was danger from muslim pirate/raiders.