On June 4, the US State Department officially acknowledged that Turkey and the US had endorsed a roadmap for the northern town of Manbij. The announcement came after a meeting between Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu and U.S. State Secretary Mike Pompeo in Washington.
Manbij is currently controlled by the US-backed Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF). Kurdish YPG and YPJ forces are the core of the SDF. Ankara sees them as terrorist group.
Earlier, Turkey claimed that the US-Turkish roadmap on Manbij will force YPG/YPJ elements to leave the area. However, the implementation and real details of this roadmap still remains in question.
If Erdogan cooperate with regional countries and put a side their own interests then within two months whole Syria can liberate from US, NATO forces and from their proxies Israel, ISIS, SDF etc. Just Turkey need to blockade them like US and Israel have blockade Palestinians.
At the moment they receive supplies through Turkey. If Turkey stop their supply routes to US, NATO and to their proxies then within two months they can leave Syria. This is not wise to compromise the regional security for F-35 junk fighters of which top speed is Mach 1.6.
I think you’re missing the point if you think the F-35 was built and designed for “speed” to be its redeeming quality. In fact, I would wager you know absolutely nothing about modern fighter jets.
yeah they are expensive sitting ducks
hamster is correct they were not built for speed. As a multi role combat mission fighter with stealth ability, speed would not be a top priority. However, if the other design attributes, especially stealth, fail to live up to expectations, they certainly would be very expensive sitting ducks.
there is not such a thing as “stealth”, but a difficult to detect craft under certain circumstances. And what if the circumstances change? You shut it down easier.
Agreed which is why I refer to design expectations which is the expected degree of difficulty in detection under varying conditions. Stealth is the term (over)used because it is much sexier to use by the media.
My guess is the F-35 has fallen well short of expectations, although not on the cost overruns that please Lockheed Martin stock holders.
There is such thing as stealth. Stealthy aircraft is much harder to detect,especially when they are cruising without afterburners or when their active radars are turned off. For example most common Russian radar that’s installed in their later designs like Su-35 are able to detect things up to 400km. However same radar provides enough resolution to detect F-35’s RCS at 100-110 km if F-35 turn it’s aferburner,fire a weapon or turn on it’s active radar. So yes,it doesn’t make plane completely “invisible” obviously but it greatly decreases the enemy’s capability of detecting you and engaging you. I for one would want to fly in a stealthy aircraft rather than fast one. I’m no fan of either Russia or NATO but you are being unfair to engineering of F-35 probably just because you don’t like US government.
I think you have captured the mechanics well and the back and forth arguments are perhaps wordplay.
The engineering and design of the aircraft is to make harder to detect by radar to varying degrees. I would refer to this attribute as ‘low observable’ technology and is passive. However, engineering and technology go hand in hand with pilot actions that reflect their training and skills that can capitalize on the technology, or if poorly trained, inexperienced, fail to use the technology to advantage.
Stealth is not passive as it usually refers to active measures to evade detection by any means including visual as well as radar. Going back to WWII, the Japanese purposely engaged enemy aircraft with the sun directly behind them as early stealth tactic. Other tactics include skimming the ocean surface, radar off, radio silence, avoid use of afterburners. Low observable technology gives pilots an advantage as it enhances the likelihood of success using stealth tactics.
This shows the importance of pilot training and experience over technology. Poor pilots will waste the technological advantages while elite pilots will make optimal use. For this reason, Russian pilots in Syria are gaining extremely valuable experience that is a must if Russia’s closing the tech gap is to be meaningful.
Yes,many people makes fun of it because of the term “stealth”,it’s a daring expression. In my opinion which is not subjective,kinematics and pilot skill are not as important as it was before,say WW2. Because most of the interface is automated nowdays. I mean how hard it can be to fire a missile when you have a radar lock on an enemy plane right? And I say kinematics are not as important anymore because air to air combat is being fought at medium to long range in modern warfare. I guess you would rarely see a close range dogfight these days incase of an escalation. So what’s the point of investing in superb maneuverability when you can enage at enemy from far away safely right? Sure a maneuverable plane is always good but not as important anymore. Better avionics wins as it was proven many times in history. For example in many occasions,western block made Israeli jets beaten Soviet made jets even though Soviet made jets was much faster and agile. Not everything is about turn rate or climb rate anymore,that’s a thing of past. However kinematics naturally still matters a bit when it comes to evading incoming missiles but the thing is when you try to evade missile what you need is raw speed instead of maneuverability,since you can’t make sharp turns or extreme maneuvers in high speeds kinematics again loses it’s value more. I think defending/trying to evade a missile is the part that depends on pilot skill/training most of course as well as the reliability of countermeasure systems,like chaffs,flares or gliding tail decoys etc. What do you think? You think kinematics,dogfighting ability still matters?
Good points. To answer your question, I would look at the emphasis the US puts into pilot training and experience. It seems it still matters to the US for mission success. The Russians seem to attach importance to the skills gained in Syria. But note that pilot skill applies broadly and this is shown nicely in the movie ‘By the Dawns Early Light’. The female B-52 pilot saves the plane twice thanks to skill and experience.
I do agree with you that kinematics in long range engagements have become less important. Kinematics in short (visual) or dogfighting is also less important due to less likely to happen – this is why air craft carries are nucleus of fleet instead of battleships after World War Two. Planes take the battle to the enemy far away beyond range of battleship guns.
The problem is changing technology. Missiles that cannot be stopped and cheap relative to the target they destroy, such as a tank or air craft carrier change the game. Tech could make kinematics important again and this may also be a reason US continues to invest in pilot skills broadly.
I see, you know nothing about this theme. Russia has only several radars capable to register stealth planes from large distance. Other countries have none. Also is not able o cover all territory or borderline.
You are full of it. You can’t possibly know that… What Russia has or has not to fight stealth. That is top secret stuff. What is known though is that; S-400 are declared to be capable to take out “stealth” targets. And those missile systems are on sale with those capabilities “Stealth” is just lower visibility signature for X-band radars and nothing else. Every recent Russian jet -fighter has IRST and everybody knows that infra red signature can make visible EVERY jet that flays today including F-22. So if they can “see” them they can shoot them down.
Nothing is “top priority” for F-35 ….since F-35 is not being jet that excels in anything. They are “not built for speed” and they are “not built for anything else” but they still build them….. They are “invisible” until they are not…..and once “visible” they’ll try to run away… only if they can…. So if SU-35’s comes their way and “see” them through his L-band radar or IRST they are not only “sitting ducks” but the “dead ducks” as well.
Yes. I have watched simulations of SU-35 vs. F-35 and they go much like you say. I point out in a post below that the F-35 has likely fallen short of expectations with the only expectation being exceeded is the cost. Yes they are being built and will continue to be built until the next new expensive toy comes along. These are the ways of the military industrial complex.
To be honest if you enemy can’t detect you it doesn’t matter if you are sitting duck or not. F-35 might no be so promising in terms of maneuverability but stealth coating technology is real,not some cheap propaganda.
Listen to the “Mule Banger” who is expert on “invisible” sitting ducks. Sex with mules must have decisive influence on his perspicacity.
Turkey and USA are talking about Syria futur. XD.
All that thanks to mister Putin, the so-called protector of Syria. XD.
Really who calls him that?
Everybody say that Putin “saves” Syria. XD. So, ask them. XD.
Where you from guy?
Who cares.
you have Turk voting you up so you are from some Turkish shit hole voting for yourself
they couldn’t find more intelligent for trolling Russia so they taking idiots?
Eh.
People always say “Putin saves Syria”. But what I see is that Syrians save the naval bases of Russia.
You’re stupid.
You are irrelevant.
Not true, my net worth is greater than yours and in my case I have a brain while your have shit for brains. See the difference?
you “see” big dick up your ass also
Putin should know that RT NEWS and http://www.rt.com is a Zionist Israel controlled media. They spread anti Russia, anti Iran and anti Palestine disinformation.
Not true.
Actually it is PERFECTLY TRUE. RT was origianally set up by the BBC, using people from the MI5 run BBC World Service, and operated out of joint BBC facilities in London. So did Iran’s Press TV. So did Al Jazeera. Each of these three, created about the same time, were MI5/MI6/BBC co-productions with the foreign nations, based firstly out of London.
RT operates under the ‘PRESS LAWS’ of the UK- which means NEVER allowing official statements from the authorities in Gaza after jewish war crimes in that death camp. Yet RT always carries statements from the jewish nazis excusing their atrocities.
On RT, the enemies of Israel are described as ‘terrorists’. Denigrating languange is never used on RT agaisnt Israel or the West.
RT never ever refers to the RACISM of punishing Iran for a nuclear program while rewarding the foul jews of Israel for building up a massive arsenal of nuclear and plague weapons. RT never mentions the continuous pattern of Putin (and his puppets) voting at the UNSC in favour of the West’s wars and sanctions.
Yes RT is better than the BBC, but only by a very limited degree- what in the intelligence biz is known as a “limited hangout”. Putin ain’t pro-war, so RT ain’t pro-war, but Putin the zionist appeaser ain’t doing a d-mned thing to prevent the coming Iran war- to the contrary he does everything Israel and the West needs.
They are RT.com -USA, RT.de -Germany.. All PUTIN-friendly.
BUT THIS MAY EXPLAIN the KERNEL of the PROBLEM, all others are “breeds” of the MAIN-ISSUE:(HA’ARETZ) http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/PUTIN-NAT-MOSCOW.JPG
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/49536.htm “Fact, Wishful Thinking Or Propaganda? In Syria, Putin and Netanyahu Were on the Same Side All Along”
But you are TOO LAZY to read more than 3 sentences, you Einsteins Everything has to be E=MC². WELL IT ISN’T. Best example: see the more intelligent and complete Schrödinger-Formula
The link that you post for the lying Jew media is full of disinfo about Assad attacking his own people with chemical weapons and Israel not being driven out of Syrian airspace. It proves nothing.
Not “the lying Jew media” but his “Jew media”
If Putin is a Zionist appeaser as you claim. Then explain how is winning the Syrian war, shooting down Jew planes and hitting Jew targets in the occupied Golan appeasing the Zionists? And show us your Rambo plan for winning the Syria war that wouldn’t be appeasing the Zionists.
Before RT media was good but as Putin and his allies have achieved some significant goals in Russia and in Syria since that date new faces appeared on RT TV as well as controversial news are published. These disinformation misguide nation which could create problem for Russia as well as for other regional countries.
you sound like lunatic
So basically all of this dribble is factually false. And LOL at “the RACISM” of punishing Iran for a nuclear program.
RT is zionist. Their comment section is ruled by israel. Once I said that RT was zionist and they banned me instantaneously.
RT is only a mean to say “Look. Russia is anti-zionist”. They only pretend to be. Each time there is an “ISIS attack” in Europe, they are the first to spread the west propagenda without any kind of thinking or whatever. They only throw you the garbage of the west so that, even the “anti-zionists” eat it.
When I own both sides, I own everything.
Hey , easy. RT sh*ts in its trousers not to be banned from the USA by that big-mouth and flipper-ball-“politician” in the WH
are you JEW?
The comments section of RT is run by an Israeli comoany meanjng Mossad moderates all comments. It hapoened to me too.
you can’t be serious?! those are ANTI-RUSSIAN comments mainly! It is insane to say that RT works for Jews because RUSSIAN government is paying RT and that is well known fact! they have no interest to keep those ANTI-RUSSIAN comments or to put them there themselves!
Wrong! Rt was started by Russian Jew. Still is owned by Russian Jews. Investigate then come and tell me. When have you seen anti- israeli article on Rt? True that Rt is Russia putin mouthpiece but never anti israeli rhetoric.
OK I just echo what i have been told that Russian government stand behind RT I have read or watched personally once when it was mentioned that Russian government pays the bills.
Do you have any source for your claim? ” Investigate then come and tell me” Investigate where?! I have no source to give you. Have no proves that Russian government is paying bills… But do YOU have one for your “truth” that it is Jewish RT?!
“When have you seen anti- Israeli article on Rt?” Israel doesn’t have sanctions on Russia like all other NATO countries. I haven’t seen even anti-US article on RT let alone anti-Israel !
So do you have any proof ? I don’t have any.
Put rt into a search and you will see who first set it up. Look at who runs the comments software of rt and you will see it is based in Israel . You will not see an antiamerican article from rt in a long time as the us have threatened to throw them out of america if they dont shut up. That is why i rarely watch it. It is now very much compromised.
Israel not having sanctions on israel only helps my thesis That Rt is compromised and becoming more and more zionist-friendly.
“Look at who runs the comments software” I’ve seen it it already it is firm with 2 addresses Tel Aviv Israel and other New York. Still you have no proves of Jewish ownership of RT.
“thesis” like yours I read every day but nobody gives anything concrete as proof so I am tired of “thesis”. Russian official politics was never anti-Israel even long before Syria so no reason for RT to do different.
But you might be right about US blackmail..
Here I have “investigated” 2 seconds: RT is a Russian international television network funded by the Russian government
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=RT+owned+by+Jews&ia=about
Now it is your turn (official source ONLY please)
a JEW a TURK and some other just voted for you troll
RT has some firm that is subcontracted for comment section and that looks very bad I agree. Plenty ANTI-RUSSIAN trolls like you are there and nobody is deleting them ! So you are accusing them even though those are ANTI-RT and ANTI-RUSSIAN comments mainly coming from your colleagues TROLLS
And you are who? Muslim? From where?
Here your JEW friend just voted for you! No need to comment !
Invaders playing with land that belongs to Syria. None of them should be there.
Yep! That is so!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idVY2KumIcA Pentagon Pain: F-35 stealth fighter jet ‘one of the worst planes we’ve ever designed’
These aircrafts are enough good to kill some defendless people. Don’t think these aircrafts will be used against Russia or China.
Glouster Gladiator would be good enough for THAT job.
You know that Americans love to kill a fly with a tomahawk.
Or maybe a Fokker E.I. that was first to employ synchronized gear allowing machine gun fire through the propeller without shooting off the blades.
By mid-1915, the Fokker E.I. was chosen by the German high command over the Fokker 35 version as the Fokker 35 cost five times as much and its armaments kept shooting off the propellor blades. Despite this setback, the Fokker 35 would in future distinguish itself for its ability to vaporize large swaths of the Pentagon’s budget.
During operation Paperclip, the Pentagon got hold of the secret designs of the Fokker 35 but kept it under wraps for decades as the design seemed so advanced. Eventually the Pentagon initiated a super advanced multi-role fighter development program based on the top secret Fokker 35 design, code named: Fukked. The program cost overruns impressed military planners that held stock in Lockheed Martin sufficiently to maintain faith in the program and approved continued funding.
Eventually, years (and years) behind schedule, the ‘Fukked’ development program would produce the famous F-35 with specifications that took it beyond that of the Fokker 35 which was impressive in its own right. First, the plane cost ten times more than the next most expensive plane in the US air force, truly setting the F-35 apart from the rest as ‘uniquely capable’. While the F-35 did not shoot off the propellor blades, as there were none, developers at Lockheed overcame this problem whereby the plane had a tendency to eject the entire turbofan assembly.
This had two key benefits (1)
short fantasy novel
Rob’s one job is to spam spam spam russki propaganda shit
The State Department statement doesn’t mean much without specifics as to what was actually agreed to.
Oh yeah! TWO sincere partners indeed! :))) Both want to double-cross the other one. This “road-map”.. between… TWO f*king a##holes IN A THIRD COUNTRY so as they were the Colonial Powers France and England after WW1 ..
Despicable that two countries who are acting in blatant breach of international law and UN Charter are now making statements about the fate of territory which they are illegally occupying using illegal military forces, and in the total absence of the legiyimate Syrian authorities. Above all else, what does this say about the integrity of those UN member countries, and indeed, the UN itself which remains silent?
This means little. Neither US or Turkey want a war, fine, and both want to resolve outstanding issues diplomatically. But still no one is any closer to making a mutually acceptable plan.
They can start by getting out of Syria.
That is exactly how I read the joint statement – a whole lotta nothing. And the hurdles to a mutually acceptable plan are bigger than Erdoogans ego.
There’s no road map for US and Turkey in Syria, such road maps are going to be all killed.
Eventually all Western invaders and their terrorist proxies will be defeated and driven out of Syria. It will end just like in Vietnam — a crushing defeat for the imperialists.
told u folks so.wer is the cursing now?stop telling me about those fucking agreements and bs talk of russia for the good of syria.IT was RUSSIA that ALLOWED turkey to invade!! All including russia,us,europe are controlled by jew satanic pricks.period.THE AGenda counts.
and june 21 is date of F-35 delivery from US to turkey.
tould u so…..who allowed turkeey to invade……they are all controlled by satanic jews..all part of agenda…us,russia,europe…….two sides..same coin….agenda counts
When I see so many stupid comments from trolls.I know the US is in deep trouble,I love it!!!
I wonder how long it will take for the Americans to claim that the agreed upon roadmap is different then what the Turks claim it says? Or all out deny that it exists. Probably the Pentagon, as that department doesn’t give $0.02 about what the State department does or says.
Well the pentagon want the turks to buy from them the F35s and get rid of the lemons they created for their allies, so I think for the moment and until the payments are done will stay quiet, beside the fact they want turkey to screw the russians wish is more than likely it will be done with or with out the help of the zioanglosaxons, who rule the colinies.
It says that the UN is a paper tiger worth less than a two dollar chinese toy!