Turkish Military Strikes Syrian Army, Suffers First Casualties Since March

*saudi, and no, it’s just a lesser evil

that was an iranirat – way worse than the turks let alone emirati arabs

Erdogan in serengeti park is fighting with the buffalos

I thought you would say he is fighting T-Rex in jurassic park

Oil-rich area of Turkeythere is nothing there except coal…

Kurds need to move to Europe, where they belong.

The Kurds have continuously lived in most the areas they now live in for 2,000 years or more, only the Iranians can say the same thing, Syria Iraq and Turkey are new countries that are literally only centuries old, so the Kurds have a much stronger claim to their own homelands.

Name the Kurdish civilization ? Provide a map of the territory it held ? What kind of architecture did this empire / civilization have ? Customs ? What other kingdoms / civilizations did they trade with ? When did it start and fall ?

“The prehistory of the Kurds is poorly known, but their ancestors seem to have inhabited the same upland region for millennia. The records of the early empires of Mesopotamia contain frequent references to mountain tribes with names resembling “Kurd.” The Kardouchoi whom the Greek historian Xenophon speaks of in Anabasis (they attacked the “Ten Thousand” near modern Zākhū, Iraq, in 401 BCE) may have been Kurds, but some scholars dispute this claim.”

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Kurd

“During the Seleucid/Macedonian period that followed the conquest of the Persian Achaemenian Empire by Alexander the Great in 330 BC, at least one major episode of resettlement of Kurds into western and southwestern Anatolia can be historically evidenced. This is for the period circa 181 BC.

A fairly long rock inscription at Telmessus (modern Fethiye) on the southwestern coast of Anatolia by the Pergamese king Eumenes II (r. 197-154 BC) provides a glimpse into the life and history of the resettled Kurds. The inscription is in Greek and is commonly known as the Cardaces Inscription.”

http://kurdistanica.com/the-first-documented-resettlement-of-kurds/

“Some of the ancient districts of Kurdistan and their corresponding modern names:

Corduene or Gordyene (Siirt, Bitlis and Şırnak)

Sophene (Diyarbakır)

Zabdicene or Bezabde (Gozarto d’Qardu or Jazirat Ibn or Cizre)

Basenia (Bayazid)

Moxoene (Muş)

Nephercerta (Miyafarkin)

Artemita (Van)

One of the earliest records of the phrase land of the Kurds is found in an Assyrian Christian document of late antiquity, describing the stories of Assyrian saints of the Middle East, such as Abdisho. When the Sasanian Marzban asked Mar Abdisho about his place of origin, he replied that according to his parents, they were originally from Hazza, a village in Assyria. However they were later driven out of Hazza by pagans, and settled in Tamanon, which according to Abdisho was in the land of the Kurds. Tamanon lies just north of the modern Iraq-Turkey border, while Hazza is 12 km southwest of modern Erbil. In another passage in the same document, the region of the Khabur River is also identified as land of the Kurds. According to Al-Muqaddasi and Yaqut al-Hamawi, Tamanon was located on the south-western or southern slopes of Mount Judi and south of Cizre. Other geographical references to the Kurds in Syriac sources appear in Zuqnin chronicle, writings of Michael the Syrian and Bar hebraeus. They mention the mountains of Qardu, city of Qardu and country of Qardawaye.

http://dirokakurdistan.com/kurdistan/

More than 2,400 years of history in the same geographical areas they still live in now, Turkey Syria and Iraq weren’t even countries then, the Kurds were a part of Persia and the Persian empire after the Persians invaded and took over, 2,400 years ago.

” The prehistory of the Kurds is poorly known, but their ancestors seem to have inhabited the same upland region for millennia. ” This says it all for me. No maps of their ” empire ” no cultural achievements, no distinct architecture and no historical mention of a Kurdish empire. Additionally, after 2,500 years there is no prove we are even talking about the same Kurds. Finally, a few sheep herding tribes in the mountains does not make a nation / empire. Are you going to argue every two-bit tribe deserves its own nation now ? Especially, after being under other empires for 2,500 years ? That’s a tough sell.

They’ve never had an Empire or a Nation and no one’s ever suggested they do or did, but they have lived as an ethnic identity in the same areas they mostly do now for more than 2,500 years. The Greeks and Romans were well known for recording facts and were studious record keepers, so are we to believe what they say about some things but not others, mmm. There are plenty of maps and info if you care to look for them. The reason they’ve never had a nation is because they were never known for their military prowess, at least not until Saladin came along, then Saladin became not only the most famous Kurdish military leader, and not even just the Islamic worlds greatest military leader, but he’s also now recognised as one of the worlds greatest military leaders/ strategist/tacticians.

Here’s some wiki info about one of the sheep herders and his famous dynasty.

“An-Nasir Salah ad-Din Yusuf ibn Ayyub (Arabic: صلاح الدين يوسف بن أيوب‎ / ALA-LC: Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn Yūsuf ibn Ayyūb; Kurdish: سەڵاحەدینی ئەییووبی‎ / ALA-LC: Selahedînê Eyûbî), known as Salah ad-Din or Saladin (/ˈsælədɪn/; 1137 – 4 March 1193), was the founder of the Ayyubid dynasty and the first to hold the title of the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques.[4] A Sunni Muslim of Kurdish ethnicity,[5][6][7] Saladin led the Muslim military campaign against the Crusader states in the Levant. During his reign, Saladin has been described as the de facto Caliph of Islam[8][9] and at the height of his power, his empire included Egypt, Syria, Upper Mesopotamia, the Hejaz, Yemen and other parts of North Africa.

He was originally sent to Fatimid Egypt in 1164 alongside his uncle Shirkuh, a general of the Zengid army, on the orders of their lord Nur ad-Din to help restore Shawar as vizier of the teenage Fatimid caliph al-Adid. A power struggle ensued between Shirkuh and Shawar after the latter was reinstated. Saladin, meanwhile, climbed the ranks of the Fatimid government by virtue of his military successes against Crusader assaults against its territory and his personal closeness to al-Adid. After Shawar was assassinated and Shirkuh died in 1169, al-Adid appointed Saladin vizier, a rare nomination of a Sunni Muslim to such an important position in the Isma’ili Shia caliphate. During his tenure as vizier, Saladin began to undermine the Fatimid establishment and, following al-Adid’s death in 1171, he abolished the Fatimid Caliphate and realigned the country’s allegiance with the Sunni, Baghdad-based Abbasid Caliphate.

In the following years, he led forays against the Crusaders in Palestine, commissioned the successful conquest of Yemen, and staved off pro-Fatimid rebellions in Upper Egypt. Not long after Nur ad-Din’s death in 1174,[10] Saladin launched his conquest of Syria, peacefully entering Damascus at the request of its governor. By mid-1175, Saladin had conquered Hama and Homs, inviting the animosity of other Zengid lords, the official rulers of Syria’s various regions. Soon after, he defeated the Zengid army at the Battle of the Horns of Hama and was thereafter proclaimed the “Sultan of Egypt and Syria” by the Abbasid caliph al-Mustadi. Saladin made further conquests in northern Syria and Jazira, escaping two attempts on his life by Assassins, before returning to Egypt in 1177 to address issues there. By 1182, Saladin had completed the conquest of Muslim Syria after capturing Aleppo, but ultimately failed to take over the Zengid stronghold of Mosul.[11]

Under Saladin’s command, the Ayyubid army defeated the Crusaders at the decisive Battle of Hattin in 1187, and thereafter wrested control of Palestine—including the city of Jerusalem—from the Crusaders, who had conquered the area 88 years earlier. Although the Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem continued to exist until the late 13th century, its defeat at Hattin marked a turning point in its conflict with the Muslim powers of the region. Saladin died in Damascus in 1193, having given away much of his personal wealth to his subjects. He is buried in a mausoleum adjacent to the Umayyad Mosque. Saladin has become a prominent figure in Muslim, Arab, Turkish and Kurdish culture,[12] and he has often been described as being the most famous Kurd in history.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saladin

Thats great, one Kurd happened to become ruler of an Islamic empire. So what ? Napoleon, led the French empire, but he was Corsican. Should Corsica be granted independence , as they have a long history on their Island also ? I hope you understand your type of reasoning legitimizes Israhelli occupation, as it could be argued the Khazars claim the same type of scenario as the Kurds.

My argument does nothing to legitimise the Israeli occupation of Palestine, the Israelis were mostly expelled from Israel during the Roman occupation 2,000 years ago, but the Kurds were never expelled from their lands, they’ve continuously lived in the same areas for 2,500 years. In Spain Catalan politicians have been jailed for wanting independence, are they wrong to want independence from spain, according to your opinion yes they are, but I have to disagree, I don’t like telling anyone what they should or shouldn’t do, especially if it doesn’t hurt me or anyone else.

Your comment is all over the place. So lets simplify .

” they’ve continuously lived in the same areas for 2,500 years. ”

So what ? They lived as occupied sheep herders for the entire time. Also, do you actually believe these sheep herders have had a 2500 continuous struggle for a homeland and independence ? Or were they perfectly fine and happy till the Khazars came along and instigated the sheep herders into thinking up a fantasy they were a great empire at some time ?

” Israelis were mostly expelled from Israel during the Roman occupation 2,000 years ago ”

So what ? Do an expelled people not have a right to return at some point ? Is there a time limit ? For disclosure, I don’t consider the Khazars as the original Jews, however, my point still stands.

Finally, how long does a land need to be occupied before its no longer considered the orginal owners ?

“So what ? Do an expelled people not have a right to return at some point ? Is there a time limit ? For disclosure, I don’t consider the Khazars as the original Jews, however, my point still stands.”

Israel uses the same argument and I don’t agree with either of you.

“Finally, how long does a land need to be occupied before its no longer considered the orginal owners ?”

It seems one day is enough if the occupiers have the military might to say they can’t, and that’s because the original occupants usually can’t do anything to stop the occupiers, that’s why they’re occupied in the first place. Might makes right and history is written by the victors, that’s why the whole middle east is the way it is now, up until 500 years ago most of the middle east was considered Persia.

when I was younger I used to say Israel the nation had no right to exist because most Israelis were either expelled or left Israel a long time ago, but now after 70 years of occupation and 3 new generations I’m unable to say that anymore, but the Kurds have never left home, they’ve just been subjugated again and again and again.

You fail to answer my questions and we’re just talking in circles at this point. Lets just end this conversation as its going no where.

Are you unaware or ignorant of the function of the edit button under all of your posts?

” Name the Kurdish civilization ? Provide a map of the territory it held ? What kind of architecture did this empire / civilization have ? Customs ? What other kingdoms / civilizations did they trade with ? When did it start and fall ?”

I have answered your question and provided links, I’m afraid you’re totally wrong, the Kurds have lived in the same areas they always have, 2.500 years and counting. You call the Kurds sheep herders and say I’m talking in circles, but read what the Romans and Greeks said about them, they thought they were the noblest of all the Arab tribes, and the best engineers, LOL, you need to read way more than you do.

Here’s Wiki info with ancient maps, tribal names, languages spoken, cultural ties, trade partners, ect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan

Absolutely not, Europe already has plenty of traitors.

“that’s revenge for Aleppo” I believe that it is for two reasons. 1) Erdogan’s family doing deals with the US Oil and Gas industry and 2) US pressure via NATO [with probably a promise not to get involved in the Greece – Turkey spat] to hold N Syria from Assad and Russian domination. You are right that Turkey does not want to see an Iranian dominated region on it’s southern border, any more than Syria, Iraq, Iran want a strong Turkey as a northern neighbour.

Yes Turkey definitely wants ro be the one dominating the region.