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Ukraine is to buy more Bayraktar TB2 combat UAVs from Turkey, Ukrainian outlet Defence Express reported on October 5th.
As it became known from the words of the general director of the company “Ukrspetsexport” Vadim Nozdri, the representative of Ukraine and Turkey agreed on the purchase of weapons.
The Ministry of Defense planned to purchase 6-12 Bayraktar TB2 control stations and 3-4 drones for each complex. The intentions were officially confirmed on October 5th.
“So, Ukraine plans to receive 48 drones, which the Ministry of Defense plans to put into service in the Armed Forces of Ukraine,” Vadim Nozdrya said.
This is a fairly large batch of UAVs, even in comparison with Turkish orders: it is reported that 107 such unmanned aerial vehicles have been delivered to the Turkish security forces over the entire period.
Ukraine bought its first 6 Bayraktar drones and 3 control stations in 2019, while the Ukrainian military underwent training in Turkey. Now it is planned to increase and localize the production of these drones in order to pursue a protectionist policy about them.
The potential for localized production also warrants some differences from the Turkish drones, and it could be exported to third parties itself.
“On the other hand, there is already an agreement with the Turkish side that we will not sell to those countries where they are already present with these products – Azerbaijan, for example,” added the CEO of the state enterprise.
The initial agreement on the purchase of Turkish operational and tactical unmanned aerial vehicles Bayraktar TB2 manufactured by Baykar Makina was signed in November 2018 (actually the contract for the purchase of six UAVs and three control stations worth $70 million was signed in January 2019). In March 2019, the first complexes arrived in Ukraine and were tested for the first time.
Finally, it should be reminded that, despite reports of the drones being regularly downed, they are being effectively utilized in Syria, Libya and, most recently, in Nagorno-Karabakh by Azerbaijan against Armenia.
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Donbas prepare your ass.
Donbass is not Armenia!
Indeed Donbas is Ukraine.
And Kosovo is Serbia. And Syria is an UN recognized State. And the Golan is Syria.
I wouldn’t mind.
i wont be so sertan if E.Ukraine has anything bigger then a OSA these things are not very effective agains anything bigger.
Probably. I’m not into military but every step of this kind is meant to move Ukraine away from Russian sphere of influence.
i am quite sertan i have observed all of the ppl in these disscusions over the years and i have seen you say some quite wrong things on both military and economic matter (i do not mean to offend you), i can recall the time you mixed up a aircraft carrier with a amphibious assault ship sooooo plz dont lie.
Anyway no matter what the Ukrainian govt trys to do they will always be in the Russian sphere of infuence they are the same culture and same ppl not to mention zelenski seems to want to cooperate with putin that alone is very telling.
You are entitled to your opinion as any human being.
I remember that I called a helicipter carrier, aircraft carrier. USA and Japan are conveeting their heli carriers in airplane carriers using F-35. Yeah, I know they are also called amphibious assault ships but I don’t think I’m wrong calling them aircraft carriers since they carry aircraft :)
Currently Ukraine is not in the Russian sphere of influence and that’s a fact. And by how things are going right now that sphere is shrinking.
by definition a aircraft carrier is a large flat top vessel able to launch rottary and fixed wing none VITOL aircraft from its deck,while a amphibious assault ship is only able to handel rottary wing and VITOL fixed wing aircraft that is a very big differance both figuratively and littearly considering that even the largest of AAS’s are barely 60% of the size of a acutal carrier so yes their is a differance its not a matter of opinion like i said my opinion is based on real world facts.
Political? debateble since zelenskis will to cooperate with putin is quite telling ,he is probably concerned about the volonteer battalions causing trouble if he actually went forward with his propper intentions tho this is my none factual based opinion its simply a observation i may be worng. But Russia seems to have played the Ukrainian pilitical elite the more time passes the worse Ukraines situation seems to get form both a economic but also cultural point of view the worse this gets the more odrinary ppl will see that the 2014 unrest was a mistake and they naturally will get warmer toward Russia and at first this was just my theory but it seems form what i have see form odriany Ukrainians this seems to be actually be the case. Say what you want but the kremlin seems to know what its doing.
Ok, since Russians have nothing but arms to brag with I guess there it’s a crime to call Kuznetsov an aircraft carrier instead of “heavy aircraft-carrying missile cruiser”. Like you’d go in Italy and put pinaple in pizza or ketchup in spageti.
Whom said that they only brag about weapons systems? If anything i havent seen many Russians do that same goes for ppl form the US,if anything it seems like Turks and Chinese ppl seem to love to brag about arms but thats neither here not there. And i have yet to see some one cry faul about calling the Kuznetsov a aircraft carrier since by definition it is a carrier but yes its actual designation is heavy aircraft-carrying missile cruiser due to the fact it really is a missile cruiser as well as a carryer its the most hevely armed carryer in history but thats down the differances in doctrine between the US and Russia.
Only the ‘aircraft’ part didn’t work well for it, with ‘heavy’ I can agree the most.
And see, that’s where you started to lie, US people talk about a lot of other things over the Internet other than their arms systems, comparing to Russians.
That’s because they have money to buy things… They talk about those things.
A facebook like from an American worth minimum 6 cents. You can buy at least 10 Russian likes with the same ammount.
Anyway poor people tend to talk more about how great their military is because they don’t afford other hobbies.
care to elaborate what part of the and i quote “‘aircraft’ part didn’t work well for it” did not work exactly?
I am sorry but your mixing your personal feelings in a dissucsion on observation is not really very good you know for a fact that none of what you just said is ture. While Russia might not have the same GDP per capita as in the United States thats not exactly how you meshure wealth particularly with 2 compleately diffrent currencys and costs of life if we account for costs of living Russia seems to be in many areas on par if not better then the United States sutch as cost of water,energy,food and medical costs (note some of the statistics can vary in both nations since the numbre is not fixed and i only pulled general statistics) but the costs of electonics and other comodetys are still far easyer to get in the US then in Russia(Russians cant affoard them).
“care to elaborate what part of the and i quote “‘aircraft’ part didn’t work well for it” did not work exactly”
The number of accidents, it sent a number of airplanes into water. And because it foesn’t have a catapult, the airplanes can takw off only with half of their payload capacity.
well yes 2 aircraft losses per one deployment is actually quite good,when the US carryers got deployed for the iraq invasion they lost more aircraft to accidents like that it happens it dosent mean the vessle is bad shit like that happens all the time to any carryer no matter if deployed or not it a matter of evry day life just like car accidents.
Also ummmm how exactly does not haveing a catapult make the vessle bad? i mean yea i cant carryer a full fuel and weapons loade but thats not the point of a ski jump style system,like i said the Kuznetzov is made for a very diffrent purpous to the Nimitz and Ford class while the ski jump absolutely has its problems those are not considered problems for a defensive orientaded vessle and the ski jump has one massive advantage over a catapult it can launch aircraft at far faster rait then a catapult can.
but again these are doctrinal differances that dosent make one vessle better then the other its like saying a semi is shit cuz it cant go faster then a doge charger and vice versa.
You need to take in consideration the number if sorties compared to accidents, a US carrier has 3 times more airplanes than the Russian one and during a combat mission it’s used almost non—stop,at maximum capacity.
The Russian carrier lost most planes durin training missions and second, in Syria.
Btw since you say the Russian carrier is for defensive use, can you name a defensive mission in which it took part?
well thats exactly my point the arverage losses are still the same more or less thats a simple fact of the matter you cant change that and from what i can find the kuznetzov has far less accidents in training thats a factor of it not beeing used all that often but genrally speaking its losses are average compared to US carryers. and plz name a source of aircraft losses of the kuznetzov during training operations.
this is my source https://www.statista.com/statistics/1031854/us-air-carrier-accidents/ its 2 years out of date but i think it gets my point across
also how can i provide a deffensive mission that the kuznetzov took part in when no one has attacked Russia in almost 80 years? But its a simple fact the Kuznetzov was made useing a compleately diffrent doctrine to the Nimitz and Ford classes.
I don’t have a link of all Kuznetsov accidents, but you gave me a link with accidents for all US carriers, they have 10, each having 3 times more planes and actively training, Kuznetsov was docked most of its life.
Regarding the defensive mission of Kuznetsov, carriers are exclusively offensive, they are meant to protect US trade interests overseas. Russia has nukes. They just realised having a carrier is useless for a defensive doctrine. Better later than never.
cople of issues with your logic dosent matter if they are more acrive or not the least in the least acrive years accounting for how many carryers they have thats still 3 aircraft per year…thats the same imout as the kuznetzov also no they do not have 3 times more aircraft that wuld imply they have a capacity of 150 aircraft the Kuznetzov can carry up to a max of 50 aircraft while the max cap of a nimitz and ford is about 100 sooooo no its not 3 times more and even if we account for that its irrelevant how many aircraft it carris when it comes down to accidents the sorties rait matters more then the acual numbre of aircraft carried. (math dosent seem to be your strong side) Also dosent matter if it was docked most of its life its accident rait is the same as any other carrier.
ummmm who said that carriers are exclusively offensive? Thats not how doctrinal differances work…also its not strictly useless it has its purpous their is a reason they still are actively working on its modernization.
What do you mean by ‘it doesn’ t matter if they are more active’. Of course it matters if they actively training and Kuznetsov stay docked, they will have more accidents.
Also Kuznetsov never carried 50 aircraft, that’s his maximum capacity but when it went to Syria it had only 12 airplanes and a number of helis I don’t remember.
And they are not working to ‘modernise’ it, nobody believes it. That’s just a statement to not tell stright in the face the Russian flagship is dead.
yea it dosent matter since by doing some basic math when deployed the kuznetzov has the same accident rait i really do not see whats so hard to comprehend? Your original statment seems quite illogical and based on nonexistant or miss information. What is your source for the claim of 12 fixwinged aircraft?
This last statment seems quite stupid like your original one i must say i do not mean to be rude but this is just getting ridiculous baseing your statments on ougtright missinformaton is not a good look i must say. While i do accept that the refit and modernization prosses has gone far form well its also far form dead and it will be modernized and refitted eventually tho its not that high in the priorety list and by my estemation thats the reason for all of the accidents in its refit and modernization prosses its just not that important of a ship for the Russian navy to modernize fast i mean the simple fact that one of the only land based dry docks large enoth to fit it was used for the modernization of a Kirov class heavy nuclear powered battle curiser instead of it is quite telling.
Why are you so emtional about all of this?
Russia said few days ago they have “no problem” selling S400 and other weapons to Iran after the embargo ends 11 more days. Well, I have new for your Russia. You sell it to Iran for money, we sell our well performed drones in Nagorno-Karabakh and munitions to Ukraine and Georgia for money aswell. How does that sound?
Sounds good to me.
Let’s see if the Russians got the message, arming our arch-enemy with top new weapons won’t go quietly here.
are you sad that the russians kicked you boleshevik yids to the gutter? well its ok. every country in the world kicked you out at one time because you are cockroaches
since when Bayraktar are made in Israel?
I’m not talking about Turkey or their drones, I am talking about us. IAI Heron + IAI Harop are made in Israel, and you could see the damage they can bring to the battlefield if used properly.
I think Russia already has to prepare to defend from everything the Americans can throw at them. Do you think a few Israeli drones will make a difference to their threat assessment?
I don’t know, ask them. I’m sure alot of countries surrounding Russia would be intersted in those drones after what they saw in the past 2 weeks. That being said, it is not our intention to threaten Russia, but don’t think for a second that selling weapons to Iran won’t have any consequences.
what exactly did they see?
They saw how a accurate they are, they saw how deadly they are, and above all they saw that the Israeli weapon systems are one of the best in the world.
ummm i cant really seems so spetchial about the loitering munitions all suicide drones are that accurate also i wont call them strictly deadly vs evrything tho the azeris seem to use them agains tanks that dose not seem very smart.
foreskin eater/camel rapist = same thing, turkey and israel are one terrorist entity
go ahead you foreskin suckers will be dead soon anyway. you can no longer terrorize the world you poor victim
We Khazarians are victims, we are only selling weapons to innocent countries to defend themselves so they will not be victim of a genocide like us.
Putin is a very smart statesman. He understands that Russia must not get too close to Iran. I would be very surprised if he sells the S-400 to Iran.
Let’s hope he won’t Free Man.
Sounds lovely.
Sounds shlemut ??
Oh, no! What would we do? What should we do? I’m sure Putin got your message and immediately became hesitant. After all, more or less the same threats were barked for S-300 but it was delivered anyway, after a long delay.
What’s more, who said Iran is interested in buying S-400? I haven’t heard from one Iranian official or military brass that they are interested in purchase of S-400, if you heard please enlighten me. But they expressed their interest for other weapon systems and a particular configuration of a jet.
Your regime does what your regime does. It stole blueprints of Mirage and sold it after it became apparent it cannot produce it (shoved the few prototypes built up the US’s ar$e, with the excuse to be used in training as eastern block jets, while they used F-5 successfully for that role for years). They stole blueprints of F-16 and got their hands on a lot of juicy information of F-35, all sold to a particular country that can’t say the US considers as a friend. God knows what other US military secrets was sold by your regime to the US’s perceived enemies.
This is what your regime does to it’s sole protector/milk cow. If it didn’t sell to Ukraine yet, I doubt it was because they didn’t want to hurt the Russians’ feelings.
But by all means, continue your threats and warning. I heard VVP personally reads all the comments under SF articles.
PS. Everything is about Iran. Obsessed much, friend?
Not obsessed Garga, but every weapon you buy from Russia is eventually copied like the Bavar AD (S300) and sent to Syria or Lebanon. The Chinese will also sell you arms when the embargo ends, and I’m sure you will copy them too which is why we need to kick out the Chinese from Israel aswell. Putin doesn’t need me to tell him what to sell or to whom, but as I wrote it will have consequences. So, let’s see what they sell you in Octover 19th.
As you are aware, there was almost a 10 years delay in delivering S-300 to Iran and that was what kick-started the research, development and production of our domestic air defence systems, including Bavar. Most of the work was done before the S-300 delivered.
So far in domestic media I don’t see any enthusiasm for S-400. But it seems our airforce commanders are interested in a special configuration of Su-30 and possibly a few AWACSes. In short, any weapons deal depends on the supplier’s willingness for tech transfer and having a production line here in Iran.
For drone tech, although we started in the ’80s but we owe a lot to the models we captured or downed (AFAIK, close to 10 different models, Americans and Israelis). RQ-170 specifically helped us to overcome the difficulties of flight without a vertical stabilizer.
I agree with you, it would be fantastic if you kick the Chinese out. Beirut, Tripoli, Tartus and specially Latakia would be much better for us for Chinese investment instead of Haifa.
My problem is Garga, that even defensive weapons you study, then copy and turn them into offensive weapons. So tell me, your missile program for example, is it offensive or defensive? I’m confused here. Also, why sending the Bavar to Syria or Lebanon? who is your enemy there and who do you plan to shoot down? could it be Israel? you tell me.
About the Chinese, I don’t trust them for a second and yes, they can operate all those ports as far as I care and leave Haifa. I mean, we’ve managed even without them before, why do we need them now? to spy on us? no thanks.
In the US elections, Biden would probably win so he will remove all the sanctions and restore the nucclear deal. After Trump is gone, Bibi would be next. If there is one thing positive in this nuclear deal, is that Israelis will remember Bibi as the most liar and coward PM we’ve ever had.
Oh well, I guess some things you can never change. Atleast you liked my cat :)
They are both defensive and offensive, what is there to confuse you? Our missile program is more a deterrent, if didn’t perform well in that role they become offensive weapon. The use we foresaw for them at this stage was secondary, meaning retaliatory weapons but recently our whole military posture is changing because our our enemies’ posture changed a lot and we have to adapt. I’m not sure if we sent Bavar system anywhere, we do not have enough of them ourselves yet but any other kind of air defence we send anywhere, it is because there was a request and demand for them. As a weapons exporting state you should know these things.
I don’t believe Biden removes any sanctions, don’t lose your hope! There isn’t really any big differences between donkey and elephant when it comes to Iran. I hope Trump somehow remains in office but the future seems so grim from him, that’s why he is acting like he’s got Covid, to buy sympathy and prove that his inaction wasn’t that fatal because he was cured and didn’t die using the exact same medicine and bleach that he suggested.
Yeah, Trump’s idea of injecting bleach was for me like “wtf did he just say?”, sadly some people took him seriously. I don’t know how the election ends, but if you managed this far then Biden would be your best option. You should support him too, just imagine Biden doing to Bibi what Obama did and ignoring him, for me it would be the best humiliation Bibi can get. Once Bibi will be pushed into the corner, our political system would be united against him from the left wing to the right wing. Israelis will become sain again. So the price of lifting the sanction worths it, we will get our freedom back.
On the contrary, it would be foolish for us to think Biden is different and better than Trump for us and therefore hope for his presidency or support him however we can. There’s no difference between the two, something that our idiot president is yet to grasp. “The yellow dog is jackal’s brother” is a Persian proverb and very suitable for their comparison.
Trump hurt us (average Iranian people, he couldn’t even dent the government’s activities) badly and continues to do so if he secures another term, but he hurt America much more than us. The damage he inflicted on our people are reversible more or less in the big picture but what he did to the US can’t be undone easily. The election process in the US is different (popular vote means nothing) and I feel it’s pointless if I put the same energy in it that I put for Bibi.
That’s the reason I hope he gets another term but don’t hold my breath because his abundant stupidity is hurting him beyond anything Biden could hope to do. I don’t buy that he is ill and infected with Corona virus. He is so childish that couldn’t maintain a role to play sick for 2 weeks, maybe he’s in a hurry to cash in on the “miracle cure” which he invested in, IDK. In short, I won’t tie my hopes (or schemes) to humiliation of one liar SOB like Bibi, I prefer the enormous damage that Trump inflicted on both US and Israel despite the hardship we will face along the way.
To hell with Trump, Biden and Bibi. Pet Luna and kiss the bastard for me please! You have a good taste in cats if she was your choice.
Thanks Garga, yeah Luna owns both Trump and Bibi :) Actually I’m kidna surprised at your comment, but I guess it has some sense in it. I mean, just look at all the BLM riots because of Trump, 4 more years like that and the U.S will be in a civil war. Biden might heal the wounds, but it can take some time. So Trump is out, the question what would BIbi do to keep his seat at all cost? another election or maybe a war? anything can happen with him. About Rouhani, isn’t he supposed to leave his office soon aswell?
Now you are getting why I love cats? Bwahahaha….
Without Trump, Bibi has to resort to his usual tactics to keep himself in power and yes, war is high above his list. His problem wouldn’t be Biden himself, the guy is demented. His problem will be who is controlling Biden.
In about 8-9 months Rohani’s term is finished. I hope a former General comes forward for the elections.
Good Choice…cheap,reliable,combat-proven..
I wont call i cheap 5 mil a pop is quite expensive particularly for a drone of its size.
5 mil???noway its 5 million ı assure you, maybe you mention anka-s.
It says form the sources i can see its 5 million per unite
last year unit cost was 2-2.5 milion but managed to down the cost even to 1-15. million usd..
give me a source for your information this is my source for my info https://jamestown.org/program/ukraine-buys-advanced-turkish-strike-drones/ the deal with ukraine seems like its 5 mil per unite
https://twitter.com/michaeltanchum/status/1251256975951835136
a tweet dosent seem like a reliable source any actual manufacturers source or a arms deal source?
that source is very reliable believe me..just follow…and the 5 million usd is export price..the expensive part of uavs are ground control stations when you get 1-2 of these you can buy more uavs for cheaper price..
ok even at 2.5mil that is very expensive for a simple combat drone keep in mind the considerabely larger MQ-1 is only 4 mil this is not a cheap drone and by the numbre built it seems to confirm that not many are made.
though diferent classes US produced Reaper MQ-9, which retails for US allies at about $16 million a piece,ı wouldnt say its expensive for bayraktar. and when you look at the battlefield tb2 are already whacking howitzers,trucks,soldiers,etc etc
Yes but the MQ-9 is a whole weight and class above the TB-2 its alot larger can carry more weapons has a far longer range and better optics etc. But you cant compare them since they are 2 diffrent classes of drone.
But my point is for a drone of its class its still very expensive and you cant afford to lose to many of them. In this case the Azeris are lucky that Armenia does not posses more modern systems like the SA-22 Greyhound.
okey its your opinion..sa-22 greyhound and the other systems(ı am not sure about tor)which works stand alone is easy target for drones.f-16 or other jets cant fly 24 hours but tb2 flies 24 hours and marking the target and sending data to any mlrs or howitzer.
yes its my opinion i base it on statistics and facts on the ground and the SA-22 proofed to be very effective at taking these things down keep in mind it saw the downgraded export model of the SA-22 with badly trained arab crews and yet it still took a average of 2 drones per one SA-22 to be take out and keep in mind more then half of the SA-22’s on the ground had been ether inactive or in transport mode so if we account for that lets be conservative thats 3 drones for evry 1 SA-22 and thats the Lybian experiance witch has the oldest version of the SA-22 witch is also downgraded on top of that. In syria it seems even worse around 7 drones down and only 2 SA-22’s damaged and not even destroyed (tho that is not supriseing since the munitions it carrys are quite light).
i mean ofc it can send data to arty any drone can do that.
sa-22 average price 14 million usd..the logic behind drones that you can sacrify them easily..even damaging sa-22 is effective because you cant repair in 1-2 day so you have the possibility of enjoying the other targets during inexistence of sa-22..in libya there are lots of rumours,info-pollution about uavs so ı cant say anything certain but We captured Tripoli which only matters.
yes ofc but my point is imagine if they had actually well trained crews in them how well they culd have done ofc i do not deny the fact that that is effective but if propperly used hell even inproperly used they still seem to be quite effective.
But at the end of the day my point is the TB-2 is good but its far from perfect.
okey thanks for kind,nice conversation…ps:no military unit gives %100 guarantee to work perfectly.
no problem also ik its just the nature of war nothing works 100% of the time.
Just a words of unknown person. Give the price of domestic contract or foreign one.
no company reveals its price but 5 million usd is absurd for tb2..as a manufacturer company Baykar can produce much more cheaper than 5 million usd…lots of comments on turkish forums about 2-2.5 million usd..
Read the article, it says ~70 million for 6 UAVs and 2 control stations. Let’s guess that a half of this number is the cost of ammunition and training. So another half is the cost of “planes”. It can be even more than 5 mln per plane for export. 5-6 is export price. Domestic price should be around ~3,5-4 million. 2-2,5 is too low and unbelievable.
ı cant say anything definite about price Anton but tb2 is for sacrifice(means cheap) while anka family is quite expensive.
“Phoenix” is 2 times larger. Both can’t be very cheap by the reason of using imported parts, mostly western. Western weapons are too expensive. For example. You have 2 regiments (divisions, 120 missiles) of S-400 for 2,5 billion. How much regiments of “Patriot PAC-2” can be bought for the same money? I guess just 1. In 2018th the State department accepted the shipment for Turkey – 20 launchers (4 systems, 80 missiles). Price is 3,5 bln.
Tb2’s import components are only %7 source: https://www.ft.com/content/8e9e9892-2bf2-4912-a6cd-46b5c09cbff6..ı agree western weapons are extremely expensive,they also offered us Thaad which is better than Patriot but price is mamma mia…s-400 best choice
I have no subscription to FT. TB-2 has “Rotax” engine, it’s austrian. Electronic components are imported also. So it can’t be 7% of cost.
but its true nevertheless..engines are only %2 the real deal is soft-ware and the subsystems which makes your flight secure against ew waves..Ukraine has lots of engines but cant assembly a drone..
Per unit means??
One Unit compromise:
2/3 x UCAV
1 x Command Station
1 x Comm receiver station.
1 x Engineer group
Yeah!! all things considered quite cheap eh?
give me a source for that.
69 million for 6 UAVs, 2 control stations, 200 bombs and missiles (small ones, ~20kg), training operators and spare parts. It’s like the cost of 1 Su-30 or even Su-35, which can use hold more payload at one time than all 6 UAVs combined + much more types of weapon.
throw them down with a simple carbine!
Better with this Greece’s pride FOTOPOULOS-S.. its deadly efficient.. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/482aaa5e720c943262948626d133550bfa89f1e736c835519cf178f23ede7b22.jpg
the carbine does a better job … tested and guaranteed I tell you
Army of LDNR has enough AA systems to take them down. They shot down ~25 ukroplanes and helicopters in 2014. After that Kiev regime stopped using its aviation. Same fate awaits all light and medium UAVs with operational altitude 3-5 km.
these last about 15 seconds over the front lines hahaha
It just shows the size of Erdogan’s balls. On the one hand buy the S-400 and on the other hand sell drones to Ukraine. Only he can do such a thing.
From my way of looking at it it seems like Ukraine is slowly going back in the Russian sphere of influance Zelenski’s willingness to cooperate with Putin is seem to say so.
Ukraine can’t deny geography. Ukraine has an interest in having good relations with Russia, its big and powerful neighbor.
well yes not only that but culturaly they are almost identical and that just adds to my point. Erdogan is bold i will give him that but no need to overblow it.
More than once I have met Ukrainians who were very offended when others thought they were Russians. Like many Canadians are offended when others think they are Americans. Erdogan is very unique, regardless of whether one is for or against him.
dosent matter if they are offended its a simple fact they are culturally almost identical to Russians even their language is almost the same some words are diffrent but mostly its the same tho its a fact that makes them closer no matter if they like it or not.
Unique? hell no he is doing the same thing Tito of former Yugoslavia did playing both east and west. And if Yugoslavia is anything to go by that dosent seem like a smart idea.
“Unique? hell no he is doing the same thing Tito of former Yugoslavia did playing both east and west. And if Yugoslavia is anything to go by that dosent seem like a smart idea.” – It’s Tito on steroids. Is it smart or not? Time will tell. In the meantime, he seems to be doing quite well. Even though I hope the Turkish people will overthrow him.
Ukrainian is artificial identity, same as belorussian. Invented by poles, promoted by germans (including Austria) and anglosaxons to separate western russian lands from mainland. I mentioned Austria, they are ethnic germans, though living in another state. ~40% of Swiss population are germans also. Luxembourg and Lichtenstein. 150-200 years ago there were 200 german states on political map. But you won’t say that bavarians, saxonians or schwabians are not germans. Same as ukro-belorussians are russian people.
Yeah, shitler was unique too.
Is that is why he is dining over at Buck `House at present?
Indeed, most bloodthirsty oligarchs are pushing for peace and trade with Russia. Interesting…
Much as I despise the Ottomans, the Bayraktar drones are the best combat drones in the world. Infinitely better than the Amerikastani Predator and Reaper which are only good for murdering civilians in villages from Yemen to Afghanistan.
Meanwhile over in the UK, Harry must be so upset, he cannot wear his fancy dress outfit, whilst Big Brother is entertaining the Nanzis, over at granny’s.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-8814393/Kate-Middleton-Prince-William-welcome-Ukraine-President-Volodymyr-Zelenskyy-Buckingham-Palace.html#newcomment
If they get more IMF loans…
The maths does not make sence. Endurance is 24 hours speed 220h/km and range is 6000KM. It can only fly for 24 hours, 24 X 220 = 5280Km. Where does 6000Km come from?
DEATH TO NAZI SRALO UKRAINE!